Let's see here.

If society can't function without the use of slavery, as is the claim here, whose fault is that? Who made the rules?

I'm pretty sure that if I made any sort of environment for beings to live in, given the power to literally decide what would and wouldn't be possible, I'd make it so slavery wasn't just unecessary but actually physically impossible.

Religion, far from being the source of morality, corrupts it. It stops it being able to evolve and improve towards the goal of human wellbeing by dogmatically sticking to outdated principles and beliefs.

(February 12, 2016 at 4:33 am)robvalue Wrote: Let's see here.

If society can't function without the use of slavery, as is the claim here, whose fault is that? Who made the rules?

I'm pretty sure that if I made any sort of environment for beings to live in, given the power to literally decide what would and wouldn't be possible, I'd make it so slavery wasn't just unecessary but actually physically impossible.

Religion, far from being the source of morality, corrupts it. It stops it being able to evolve and improve towards the goal of human wellbeing by dogmatically sticking to outdated principles and beliefs.

Easy, Rob. God prohibited slavery as a moral wrong the same way he banned rape: by putting it in the Ten Commandments.

What do you mean, you can't find it? It's right between the strict prohibition against boiling a goat in its mother's milk and the one that says whatever first comes out of a womb belongs to God.

(February 12, 2016 at 12:27 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(February 12, 2016 at 4:33 am)robvalue Wrote: Let's see here.

If society can't function without the use of slavery, as is the claim here, whose fault is that? Who made the rules?

I'm pretty sure that if I made any sort of environment for beings to live in, given the power to literally decide what would and wouldn't be possible, I'd make it so slavery wasn't just unecessary but actually physically impossible.

Religion, far from being the source of morality, corrupts it. It stops it being able to evolve and improve towards the goal of human wellbeing by dogmatically sticking to outdated principles and beliefs.

Easy, Rob. God prohibited slavery as a moral wrong the same way he banned rape: by putting it in the Ten Commandments.

What do you mean, you can't find it? It's right between the strict prohibition against boiling a goat in its mother's milk and the one that says whatever first comes out of a womb belongs to God.

So God gets every first period?

Full of nutrition I suppose.

(February 11, 2016 at 7:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(February 11, 2016 at 5:17 pm)Drich Wrote: We need slave labor, ALL society was built and is maintain on slave labor. we have never created a society/money based economy that is not built on slave labor.

No, we don't.

Then please cite an example of a society who's economy is not built and maintained on the backs of slaves.

Oh, that's right you have your own definitions to words and will not yield to the word's actual definitions.
So then a slave could mean only what you think it means and if your narrow definition is not met you can pretend not to be dependent on slaves.

Quote:Must be that christian moral compass we hear so much about.  It's a bad thing, and no one -has- to live that way.  What makes it bad is when people have owners, full stop.

Hey stupid, wake the F up! 2/3rds of the world lives and works this way right now!!!

Quote:No it isn't, it's to excuse you and your god..in case -you'd- forgotten what you were babbling about.  You and your god are okay with slavery, you even think it's necessary.

Not think sport but have given examples of slavery in every single man made produce, or food you put in your mouth that you yourself do not grow/create. all of which you want to dismiss because you are only willing to accept the meaning of Chattle slavery as being the only definition of slavery. Which again allows modern slave drivers the freedom to regulate themselves because douche bags like yourself will not admit to your own part in modern slavery.

(February 11, 2016 at 7:32 pm)Cecelia Wrote: If you're okay with slavery existing, then perhaps you should go live as a slave?

What makes you think I don't?

(February 12, 2016 at 1:37 pm)Drich Wrote:

(February 11, 2016 at 7:32 pm)Cecelia Wrote: If you're okay with slavery existing, then perhaps you should go live as a slave?

What makes you think I don't?

You have time to spout off on atheist forums, presumably on a computer you purchased with your own money.

(February 12, 2016 at 1:36 pm)Drich Wrote: Then please cite an example of a society who's economy is not built and maintained on the backs of slaves.

Oh, that's right you have your own definitions to words and will not yield to the word's actual definitions.
So then a slave could mean only what you think it means and if your narrow definition is not met you can pretend not to be dependent on slaves.

Bitching about my refusal to take you seriously when you excuse god won't convince me of anything.  

Quote:Hey stupid, wake the F up! 2/3rds of the world lives and works this way right now!!!

Probably has something to do with people like yourself, who feel that slavery is acceptable and even necessary.

Quote:Not think sport but have given examples of slavery in every single man made produce, or food you put in your mouth that you yourself do not grow/create. all of which you want to dismiss because you are only willing to accept the meaning of Chattle slavery as being the only definition of slavery. Which again allows modern slave drivers the freedom to regulate themselves because douche bags like yourself will not admit to your own part in modern slavery.

My part in modern slavery would be to oppose it, as I've been doing, wherever I see it.  I also oppose substandard wages and working conditions, but have enough sense in my head to recognize that this is not slavery regardless.  That you can manufacture a sense of smug superiority in the face of my repeated criticisms of -every- practice you idiotically deem "slavery" while, yourself...extolling their virtue and necessity......is yet another example of the failure of your beliefs and your ability.

(February 11, 2016 at 8:12 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(February 11, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Drich Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...+abortions
educate yourself fool.

The point is the this soceity condones infanticide under a different name. Third trimester abortions are relevant because 80% of all premature births as early as week 25 are viable babies. just FYI 25th week is in the second trimester, that means by the third they are fully formed human babies.
That means for the sake of this analogy they are fully functional completely assembled cars, waiting for delivery.
https://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/pr...sters.html

So what a million? 10 million?? 100 Million? a billion In the WHole bible that spans 4 or 5000 years??
how about 1.4 billion since 1980. In just 36 years we have more than likely doubled/quadrupled  All of the infant deaths that anyone could ever attribute to God, and yet Idiots claim god is a monster because he kills babies...
This is what Jesus meant by take the friggen plank out of your eye before you worry about the speck in the eye of your neighbor.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/
You keep calling me shameless... what's actually shameful is you appealing to my modesty when you do not want to look at immoral truths of pop culture/morality that would force you to reconsile the propaganda you have adopted that affords you the level of self righteousness you lord over everyone and every thing that challenges your 'moral security.'

That sport is shame full or rather you should be ashamed of hiding from the truth just because it challenges your 'moral foundation.'

A 'moral foundation' that you yourself can not live up to. a 'moral foundation' that you will be judged by, and be found wanting.

Yeah, I guess I'd be trying to shut down the conversation too if someone hit a never that close to home. I'd call everything they believe into question and I would try and shame them off topic as well.

Nice try, but no. the facts remain, and if you don't like talking about them then i suggest that you find someone else to try and defend you morality to them. Maybe they will let you manipulate the topic so you are not faced with a hard reality to answer for.


You people Kill babies as a form of birth control, giving no thought to who this child is or is to become. it's all about the convenience of having a child.

I just have to ask... how dishonest do you feel when you skew numbers like that?

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, an abortion-rights research group that conducts surveys of the nation's abortion doctors, about 15,000 abortions were performed in the year 2000 on women 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancies; the vast majority were between the 20th and 24th week. Of those, only about 2,200 D&X abortions were performed, or about 0.2 percent of the 1.3 million abortions believed to be performed that year.

And contrary to the claims of some abortion opponents, most such abortions do not take place in the third trimester of pregnancy, or after fetal "viability." Indeed, when some members of Congress tried to amend the bill to ban only those procedures that take place after viability, abortion opponents complained that would leave most of the procedures legal.

(Source: http://www.npr.org/2006/02/21/5168163/pa...-from-spin )

As with all things in this discussion, it comes down to a matter of balancing harms to society. I find it far worse to live in a society that treats sex like it's only for reproduction (or, worse, like reproduction is some kind of "penalty" for having sex) and forces women to carry any pregnancy to term or seek back-alley abortions.

But why are Christians against abortion, I always wonder? What's the Biblical basis for that?

Instead of complaining about the D&E ("partial birth") abortions that make up a fraction of a fraction of a percent (and are done only with the signatures of multiple doctors stating that the procedure is necessary), while pretending that it's really most of them... why aren't Christians complaining that we don't use the abortion method specifically spelled out in the Bible?

Look it up for yourself. Numbers 5 : 11-31.

Not my numbers were they? I provided source material for everything I mentioned, except what I freely admitted was speculation.

As far as what do Christians base their anti abortion stance on... IDK may you shall not murder.. Maybe you can start their. Oh, but that's right it's not murder because like I pointed out with the Nazis, and Indians at the time, the humanity required for 'murder' has been taken from these babies and it does not count... Oh, but wait doesn't that go back to what I said already about pop morality? In that a 'moral consensus' can justify any act, even one that has consumed over a billion babies, and no one will give it a second thought. So then my question "how would 'we' know that we ourselves have already taken an evil turn like the Nazis did, yet still consider ourselves 'good people'? (just like they did)" Was really retorchical because Abortion is indeed an example of a stomach turning evil that has killed far more BABIES than everyone killed in WWII.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

So really the Nazi's have nothing on us.

(February 12, 2016 at 2:03 pm)Drich Wrote: Not my numbers were they? I provided source material for everything I mentioned, except what I freely admitted was speculation.


As far as what do Christians base their anti abortion stance on... IDK may you shall not murder.. Maybe you can start their. Oh, but that's right it's not murder because like I pointed out with the Nazis, and Indians at the time, the humanity required for 'murder' has been taken from these babies and it does not count... Oh, but wait doesn't that go back to what I said already about pop morality? In that a 'moral consensus' can justify any act, even one that has consumed over a billion babies, and no one will give it a second thought. So then my question "how would 'we' know that we ourselves have already taken an evil turn like the Nazis did, yet still consider ourselves 'good people'? (just like they did)" Was really retorchical because Abortion is indeed an example of a stomach turning evil that has killed far more BABIES than everyone killed in WWII.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

So really the Nazi's have nothing on us.

Legal abortions prevent the deaths of grown women, fully formed people are saved by this law, but being a Christian Drich only cares about people in the wrapper for some reason.

Quote:Unsafe abortion is a major cause of injury and death among women worldwide. Although data are imprecise, it is estimated that approximately 20 million unsafe abortions are performed annually, with 97% taking place in developing countries.[36] Unsafe abortion is believed to result in approximately 69,000 deaths and millions of injuries annually.[36] The legal status of abortion is believed to play a major role in the frequency of unsafe abortion.[37][38] For example, the 1996 legalization of abortion in South Africa had an immediate positive impact on the frequency of abortion-related complications,[39] with abortion-related deaths dropping by more than 90%.[40] Groups such as the World Health Organization have advocated a public-health approach to addressing unsafe abortion, emphasizing the legalization of abortion, the training of medical personnel, and ensuring access to reproductive-health services.[38]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

(February 11, 2016 at 9:54 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(February 11, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Drich Wrote: You people Kill babies as a form of birth control, giving no thought to who this child is or is to become. it's all about the convenience of having a child.

I have Drippy on ignore, but I have to respond to this...
Fuck you Drippy. How dare you speak for any woman who has to make the single most difficult decision of her life, especially when you're misrepresenting it as a throwaway decision. Until you're able to birth a kid, why don't you simply shut the fuck up.

Difficult or not is not the question here sport. I'm asking if this is a moral act according to society. Clearly it is. That's the point you pompous douche. The fact that killing a baby can be 'morally justified' (whatever the reason) means your precious 'moral' standard is corrupt. This also means you have nothing in which to judge right or wrong legitimately.  As I pointed out to the last poster this is why people like the Nazis (and you "good people") can justify what they do, by saying 'they were just following orders.'

Because The Babies murdered by abortion, like the 6 million Jews murdered by Germany were all dehumanized, and were no longer counted as people/human so they could be rightfully discarded morally by societal standards.

That's the point I am making. When I ask the question "given your current understanding of 'morality' how can you be sure you do not take an evil turn? Because clearly if we can justify infanticide then their are no limits to the evil we can justify in society!

Now you can return your head to the sand and tell yourself your just removing "goo" from a womb.