Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 9:51 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 9:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For the record, I, at least, am not saying suffering is "good." Suffering is not good, and it is our moral duty to try to alleviate the suffering of others.
I can't answer why God allows suffering in the world. At least not the suffering that isn't caused by other people's actions. But what I do know is that I believe God is good and that we are eternal. And so whatever temporary suffering we endure during this life time, our existence is still worth it for eternity in happiness.
Kind of dodging the point of the POE.
If suffering is not good, and if the sole creator of all that exists is good, then what's up with that?
Either suffering is good to God, or it is not. If it is good to God, then why would a faithful servant of God try to prevent or eliminate it? If it is not good to God, then why is he said to be all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful?
"I dunno. God is a special case." isn't a particularly strong argument.
I'm not trying to make an argument, just giving my honest answer and that is that I don't know. There are a lot of good things in the world, but there is suffering also (which is not good). None of us have all the answers for God's motives.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 9:55 pm
All this is long refuted psedo apologetic crap
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 9:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 7, 2017 at 9:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: God's ways are higher and understand his ways best, is a valid response, if someone doesn't know why but is sure God exists. Despite Atheists hating it. No they aren't...and no it's not.
You see a man raping a child.
Do you-
A: Intervene
B: Do nothing
C: Excitedly shout "God is Great!"
God takes option b while demanding that you take option c. Nothing mysterious about that. I understand it perfectly well. Guys a dick.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm
Once again we don't understand motives or we must trust X is a lame cop out .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:02 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 10:03 pm by Mystic.)
(November 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 9:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: God's ways are higher and understand his ways best, is a valid response, if someone doesn't know why but is sure God exists. Despite Atheists hating it. No they aren't...and no it's not.
You see a man raping a child.
Do you-
A: Intervene
B: Do nothing
C: Excitedly shout "God is Great!"
God takes option b while demanding that you take option c. Nothing mysterious about that. Guys a dick.
If you had to create life for all living things...what do you do the beings that choose evil? You elimate someone who does evil right away....they don't exist.
So everyone starts doing good out of fear of dissappearing.
Tell me your design and explain exactly how you think God would create the world if God existed type scenario from your paradigm.
Go ahead.
You will say, how am I suppose to know....I am not God...or you will come with things that are problematic I assure you.
God's design is the best design, it doesn't mean the outcome of his algorithym is the best result, because free-will and he reacts.
How do you deal with free-will? Take it away or give it.
The problem is choice. Always has been and always will be.
I think my mental illness is worse than homosexuality, because it gave up the trust of reason, while homosexualtiy just gave up the trust of a more lustful type love and disfigured that, while my madness disfigured foundational reasoning.
I could not have come back to school and do well if I didn't take responsibility for my illness. I tried many times when not taking responsibility to no avail. I know for me excuses and doing away with responsibility doesn't empower me, it destroys me.
So responsibilty to me is an aspect of free-will. It comes with it.
And all this is through a design, and responsibility without an accounter doesn't make sense.
We know God exists. You got it wrong when you assumed we don't, it's proven, get over your error and move on. Take responsibility, regret, and move forward.
Posts: 8219
Threads: 40
Joined: March 18, 2014
Reputation:
54
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:04 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: For the record, I, at least, am not saying suffering is "good." Suffering is not good, and it is our moral duty to try to alleviate the suffering of others.
No, you're not arguing that it's good, you're arguing that it's worth it for the prize at the end, that the ends justify the means, no matter how horrible the means are. That's bullshit, especially considering it's not actually a prize, but the mere (dare I say empty) promise of a prize.
The worst part is, those who believe in the prize seem to have a very poor understanding of human nature or a very poor understanding of what their gawd is going to do to them. Eternal anything is going to become hell for any human. We can't get through our lives without becoming bored of almost everything we ever do. How do you think that's going to play out on an eternal stage? I can tell you. And if you're one of those who thinks gawd will fundamentally change who and what they are so they'll never get bored, then you're not even human any more. Sorry, but I'd far rather cease to exist than live forever in the shrieking hell of utter boredom or being twisted into something else by a gawd who couldn't get it right the first time. It goes back to the saying (don't remember by who) that there are people who long for eternity who can't figure out what to do with themselves for a long weekend.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:05 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 10:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 7, 2017 at 10:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you had to create life for all living things...what do you do the beings that choose evil? You elimate someone who does evil right away....they don't exist.
So everyone starts doing good out of fear of dissappearing. More or less the same idea as trying to scare people into doing good with eternal torture in hell, huh? The only difference being that in one case, you get the fucker before he rapes the little girl..and in the other, she gets raped.
Quote:We know God exists. You got it wrong when you assumed we don't, it's proven, get over your error and move on. Take responsibility, regret, and move forward.
If you say so..but if he does, the guy needs more help than you do. He's sick.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:06 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Once again we don't understand motives or we must trust X is a lame cop out .
If you say there is alternative design, then show that design.
Remember not to talk about the outcome of a world, but the design and it's possible outcomes.
No diseases and illnesses, while humans oppress others, will just make the oppressors more arrogant.
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:08 pm
Howsabout the design where the little girl doesn't get raped? Too much to ask? Beyond the abilities of the lord of creation..is it?
Strange, because -we- seem to be able to effect that with at least -some- success.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 10:09 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 10:10 pm by Mystic.)
(November 7, 2017 at 10:05 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (November 7, 2017 at 10:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you had to create life for all living things...what do you do the beings that choose evil? You elimate someone who does evil right away....they don't exist.
So everyone starts doing good out of fear of dissappearing. More or less the same idea as trying to scare people into doing good with eternal torture in hell, huh? The only difference being that in one case, you get the fucker before he rapes the little girl..and in the other, she gets raped.
Quote:We know God exists. You got it wrong when you assumed we don't, it's proven, get over your error and move on. Take responsibility, regret, and move forward.
If you say so..but if he does, the guy needs more help than you do. He's sick.
So God will destroy people sinning before they sin.
People will be so afraid to even intend evil lol.
No free-will. Glad you are not the creator in charge.
(November 7, 2017 at 10:08 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Howsabout the design where the little girl doesn't get raped? Too much to ask? Beyond the abilities of the lord of creation..is it?
Strange, because -we- seem to be able to effect that with at least -some- success.
Show the design. We will see which one is better.
|
