(January 27, 2018 at 6:59 pm)Banned Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 11:04 am)Chad32 Wrote: And yet he has commanded both of those things from time to time in the bible. And he's still considered morally good.

Oh really, all you need to do now is show the evidence from the Bible, without your slant on it.

Yeah, when he commands soldiers to go into villages of other nations, and kill everyone who isn't a young girl. Then take the young girls home and rape them. Of course, these wouldn't be considered murder and rape back then, but to a modern audience it would be. But I guess that's my enlightened slant, huh?

What is this god's nature supposed to even be, exactly? And how would you tell it's not only good, but it has to be good by definition? Because taken at face value, there are a large number of events in the bible that most people would see as evil. At least those with a skeptical slant.

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(January 27, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 6:54 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Ignoring the OT is a bit dishonest, though. Yeah, I prefer the nicer christians too, but you can't say that Jesus and Yahweh are the exact same person, and then say the OT should be ignored.

It's not about "ignoring the OT." It's about recognizing that it was written thousands and thousands of years ago, for the people of the time, in the context of those times. It's also about recognizing it's allegorical style of writing. Jesus actually existed and cleared up things that were otherwise misunderstood. Why do you think He was so controversial among the Jews of the time? This has been explained many times.

Because we don't buy the line that the worst parts must just be allegory, but the good parts were totally true and historical. It doesn't really matter what that god did when he sent himself down to sacrifice himself to himself. It didn't clear things up. It just made things more confusing. It put a nice coat of paint on a turd.

(January 27, 2018 at 11:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: Congratulations for proving the point, asshole!

Thanks for supplying the scriptural evidence in the first place.
Now what if God wasn't who people - even the religious, think he is, but someone you would feel safe with?

The past has a way of locking you in. Is it possible to have any good come out of that?
What past crime will God not forgive?

(January 27, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Banned Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 11:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: Congratulations for proving the point, asshole!

Thanks for supplying the scriptural evidence in the first place.
Now what if God wasn't who people - even the religious, think he is, but someone you would feel safe with?

The past has a way of locking you in. Is it possible to have any good come out of that?
What past crime will God not forgive?

100% this.  Only you won't be forgiven as you're following a false idol.

Also, FSM doesn't forgive child rapists.

RAmen

(January 27, 2018 at 7:07 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 6:59 pm)Banned Wrote: Oh really, all you need to do now is show the evidence from the Bible, without your slant on it.

...But I guess that's my enlightened slant, huh?

What is this god's nature supposed to even be, exactly? And how would you tell it's not only good, but it has to be good by definition? Because taken at face value, there are a large number of events in the bible that most people would see as evil. At least those with a skeptical slant.

They're really good questions, because we can't always afford to rely on first impressions.
I have to examine and question my own perceptions. But as you said, you can only go by what you are picking up on, and if further evidence is presented, then we can continue with that.

God doesn't expect "enlightenment," as some people rave on about, but progress. Jesus said "If you CONTINUE in my word, you are my disciples." If you keep adding to your knowledge, which is only a fair thing for all.

(January 27, 2018 at 7:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 6:54 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Ignoring the OT is a bit dishonest, though. Yeah, I prefer the nicer christians too, but you can't say that Jesus and Yahweh are the exact same person, and then say the OT should be ignored.

It's not about "ignoring the OT." It's about recognizing that it was written thousands and thousands of years ago, for the people of the time, in the context of those times. It's also about recognizing it's allegorical style of writing. Jesus actually existed and cleared up things that were otherwise misunderstood. Why do you think He was so controversial among the Jews of the time? This has been explained many times.

With tens of thousands of Jesus based denominations and schisms I'm thinking the claim "Jesus . . . cleared up things that were otherwise misunderstood" isn't true.

Jesus was not a beacon of clarity to His followers, they have argued even over how many nails it took to crucify Him (the correct answer is 4, BTW, they didn't have nails long enough to pierce both ankles with just one). There has been a schism triggered by the width of a hat brim, for pity's sake.

Maybe not what He intended, but it's His legacy regardless.

I find it amazing that NT Christians always leave the Book of Revelation out of discussion when defending how right and proper jesus/god treats his creations. Apparently the book was dictated directly. 

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/cr_list.html

@Banned: Can you tell me what all of the "false religions" are?

Quote:Also, FSM doesn't forgive child rapists.

And he certainly doesn't transfer them to another pasta shop to continue their crimes.

Boru

(January 27, 2018 at 7:46 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Banned Wrote: ...What past crime will God not forgive?

100% this.  Only you won't be forgiven as you're following a false idol.

Also, FSM doesn't forgive child rapists.

RAmen

Unfortunately, and against my feelings and opinion, he will forgive such crimes if they thoroughly repent.
Manasseh committed the worst atrocities, not unlike you've probably known about, and he repented and will enter heaven after the general resurrection.

I don't agree with such a deal, not at all, neither do I agree with loving your enemies etc.

God doesn't blame me for that hatred, but it will have to be remedied by a superior understanding and compassion. At this point in time, I cannot see that ever happening, but it will.

There was a case where a creepy king of Israel did similar crimes, and God allowed him to be captured, where the enemy dragged him behind horses through thorn bush country. He had a really painful time in jail, he had festering sores for years after.
And he repented and was very sorry for what he had done to others. That sounds more like the justice we expect.

But God looks at vile sinners as misguided, hapless twats, which could be really loving and beautiful sons and daughters, if they were turned around.
I don't always have that point of view.

I am like you.
In fact, I have been disgusted in God on many occasions, but my decision making didn't end there, because life goes on.

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(January 27, 2018 at 8:10 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I find it amazing that NT Christians always leave the Book of Revelation out of discussion when defending how right and proper jesus/god treats his creations. Apparently the book was dictated directly. 

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/cr_list.html

@Banned: Can you tell me what all of the "false religions" are?

You've just identified one above, they pick and choose what they want from the Bible.
The simplest formula to identify all false religions is given in the same book that they neglect - Revelation 12:12? "Here are they which keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" (Note: not faith IN Jesus, but OF Jesus)

Most people know the ten laws of God. That's easy. Thou shalt not steal etc, and Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
Nearly all, so called Christian, religions keep Sunday and not the Sabbath.
That eliminates 95 + %,
then the faith of Jesus, requires the same faith that he had in his Father, while he was a human being on earth. Recognizing that he was God, and could return at any time, but chose to remain with the plan.

Most religions reject the fact that Jesus was God and became fully human like us, they have different versions of that. And of course pagan religions eliminate the divinity of Jesus altogether.

(January 27, 2018 at 7:52 pm)Banned Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 7:07 pm)Chad32 Wrote: ...But I guess that's my enlightened slant, huh?

What is this god's nature supposed to even be, exactly? And how would you tell it's not only good, but it has to be good by definition? Because taken at face value, there are a large number of events in the bible that most people would see as evil. At least those with a skeptical slant.

They're really good questions, because we can't always afford to rely on first impressions.
I have to examine and question my own perceptions. But as you said, you can only go by what you are picking up on, and if further evidence is presented, then we can continue with that.

God doesn't expect "enlightenment," as some people rave on about, but progress. Jesus said "If you CONTINUE in my word, you are my disciples." If you keep adding to your knowledge, which is only a fair thing for all.

yes, continued obedience is about the only thing this god, or more specifically the people in power speaking for him, want from the general public. We definitely get that.

(January 27, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Banned Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 11:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: Congratulations for proving the point, asshole!

Thanks for supplying the scriptural evidence in the first place.
Now what if God wasn't who people - even the religious, think he is, but someone you would feel safe with?

The past has a way of locking you in. Is it possible to have any good come out of that?
What past crime will God not forgive?

Being an Amalekite. Jesus never rescinded God's pronouncement.