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Theists: Hitchens Wager

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Theists: Hitchens Wager
Mystic Offline
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#91
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 7:57 pm
Obey a true leader.
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#92
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm (This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 22, 2018 at 7:41 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Seeing the true nature of goodness and loving it for what it is.

Nah, I can do that just fine.

Quote:Obey a true leader.
I'm particularly talented in this regard, with a modicum of experience.  So, no go, on count's one and two.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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chimp3 Offline Donators
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#93
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm (This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 8:02 pm by chimp3.)
(April 22, 2018 at 7:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:45 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Why is tha a moral action or statement?

Actions have outward form, and inward intentions, it's the intentions really that are the states we are in. 

The true nature of goodness and loving it, is the heart of what makes an action good, and if you deny that much, you've denied too much.
So! List a moral statement made by a believer that a non-believer can not state!
(April 22, 2018 at 7:57 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Obey a true leader.

Why could not an atheist be gullible enough to obey?
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#94
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:04 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 7:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: As I have stated before, the action is seperate from the motivation.

The OP addresses moral actions or statements. Not motivations.
You wouldn't consider that kind of martyrdom a distinct category of action?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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chimp3 Offline Donators
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#95
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:09 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 7:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:23 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
I don't see any reason to die or kill for atheism. I don't see how this precludes any other psycho atheist from doing so.

The wager, though, is what an atheist can't do that a theist can.  Dying (por killing, or killing and dying) for a particular belief in god is something that no atheist could do.  They don't possess that belief.  We commonly consider that to be an instance of immorality, martrydom as evil, because it's so commonly leveraged to what we might consider evil ends. 

It's a difficult question to answer, I've spent some time thinking about it, from time to time.  Like a puzzle, you just want to crack it and offer some credible answer.  So, consider the counterfactual.  If, in some circumstance, that sort of martyrdom was a morally correct (dare I say righteous) act...then wouldn't this by definition be a moral act that an atheist would be incapable of doing?
I am confused! However, if a freethinker would fight and die for the rights of others to believe.....
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Edwardo Piet Away
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#96
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:14 pm (This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 8:14 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 22, 2018 at 7:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Belief in God is the primary magical power we have my friend, and it's foundation. 

LOL so if I started believing in God I'd get magic powers? Great! Where do I sign up? Where's the nearest mosque? I wanna shoot laser beams outta my eyes, lol.
(April 22, 2018 at 7:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The wager, though, is what an atheist can't do that a theist can.  Dying (por killing, or killing and dying) for a particular belief in god is something that no atheist could do.  They don't possess that belief.  We commonly consider that to be an instance of immorality, martrydom as evil, because it's so commonly leveraged to what we might consider evil ends. 

It's a difficult question to answer, I've spent some time thinking about it, from time to time.  Like a puzzle, you just want to crack it and offer some credible answer.  So, consider the counterfactual.  If, in some circumstance, that sort of martyrdom was a morally correct (dare I say righteous) act...then wouldn't this by definition be a moral act that an atheist would be incapable of doing?
As I have stated before, the action is seperate from the motivation.

The OP addresses moral actions or statements. Not motivations.

Don't expect him to actually address you accurately, this is Khem we're talking about Tongue
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Mystic Offline
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#97
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:15 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 8:14 pm)Hammy Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Belief in God is the primary magical power we have my friend, and it's foundation. 

LOL so if I started believing in God I'd get magic powers? Great! Where do I sign up? Where's the nearest mosque? I wanna shoot laser beams outta my eyes, lol.

You get magic powers, if you remain patient, even more so yes.  If you ask forgiveness from God, you get immense power increase from God.
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chimp3 Offline Donators
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#98
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:15 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 8:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: As I have stated before, the action is seperate from the motivation.

The OP addresses moral actions or statements. Not motivations.
You wouldn't consider that kind of martyrdom a distinct category of action?

No! As an example, I do not believe people should be punished for hate crimes. Murder is murder. Because a murderer killed for greed or power rather than bigotry does not mean the victim/ family does not deserve equal justice! 

Maryrdom is a motivation not an action!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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Mystic Offline
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#99
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:17 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 7:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Actions have outward form, and inward intentions, it's the intentions really that are the states we are in. 

The true nature of goodness and loving it, is the heart of what makes an action good, and if you deny that much, you've denied too much.
So! List a moral statement made by a believer that a non-believer can not state!
(April 22, 2018 at 7:57 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Obey a true leader.

Why could not an atheist be gullible enough to obey?

Cause he's jealous of God's grace on him, I don't know, or maybe too smart to need be guided by God. One or the other.
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chimp3 Offline Donators
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#100
RE: Theists: Hitchens Wager
April 22, 2018 at 8:18 pm
(April 22, 2018 at 8:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(April 22, 2018 at 8:01 pm)chimp3 Wrote: So! List a moral statement made by a believer that a non-believer can not state!

Why could not an atheist be gullible enough to obey?

Cause he's jealous of God's grace on him, I don't know, or maybe too smart to need be guided by God. One or the other.
You have not addressed the central question!
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Theists: Hitchens Wager

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