(May 17, 2018 at 1:36 pm)Khemikal Wrote: A weakened US is a strengthened China.  I can;t see why they wouldn;t, if they haven;t already.

We are still idiotically beating our chest even as the rest of the world put us out to pasture.

I;m foolishly optimistic..but I think we can turn it around.  I don;t think we'll ever regain our former position or status, but a respectable downgrade like the UK's is well within our reach...unless we keep screwing the pooch. I'd hate to see the us go through it;s own version of the immediate postwar period.

(assuming that;s not where we are already)

(May 17, 2018 at 1:39 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I;m foolishly optimistic..but I think we can turn it around.  I don;t think we'll ever regain our former position or status, but a respectable downgrade like the UK's is well within our reach...unless we keep screwing the pooch.

Which we do.

I can't blame the voters for Trump being elected, because it was instead an incompetent Electoral College that gave us the retard. However, as a country of late, we do seem to have a problem not understanding how bad Republican presidents are for us. We do great when we have a Democrat in the White House, and then when the next election rolls around it is as though people have lost sight of how the previous Republican destroyed the country and all too merrily elect another Republican as though somehow this time things will be different.

(May 17, 2018 at 1:39 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I;m foolishly optimistic..but I think we can turn it around.  I don;t think we'll ever regain our former position or status, but a respectable downgrade like the UK's is well within our reach...unless we keep screwing the pooch.  I'd hate to see the us go through it;s own version of the immediate postwar period.

(assuming that;s not where we are already)

The effectiveness of the U.S.'s global reach has been steadily deteriorating since World War II. We live in a complicated global theater in which the solutions are not as readily applied as they were then. We have transitioned from opposing global evils to interceding in local civil wars. Our effectiveness in the latter is not nearly the same as in the former. Will it take another world war to return the U.S. to prominence in that sphere? I think that age is past, but I'm not making any predictions.

(May 17, 2018 at 12:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: This will teach those farmers a lesson!

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/china-n...trade-war/

Quote:China nearly triples purchases of Russian soybeans as US farmers suffer over Trump’s trade war

Quote:Russians are benefiting from President Donald Trump’s trade dispute with China while U.S. soybean farmers are suffering from lost sales.

You have no one to blame but yourselves.

So you are this huge free trade advocate all of a sudden? When did that start? Oh yeah, 2016.

(May 17, 2018 at 1:39 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I;m foolishly optimistic..but I think we can turn it around.  I don;t think we'll ever regain our former position or status, but a respectable downgrade like the UK's is well within our reach...unless we keep screwing the pooch.

We lost forever the ability to actually regain our former position in the 1960s as much of the developed world made good the ground lost during wwii and our unique position in 1946 as the largest major power and the only major power spared the ravages of total war came to an end.

What we had since the 1960s and before 2016 was the ability to hang on to major parts of the hegemonic position we gained before 1960 through a singularly enlightened understanding that a hegemonic power can only stay great and not be toppled through a death of a thousand cuts inflicted by all the other powers in the world if it used its hegemony in a way that profits and enriches most other major powers, it supported a global order that is essentially fair to the majority of influential players and provides room for them to grow and gain on the hegemonic power, and the other powers do not feel the hegemonic power is fundamentally enimical to the core interests of other powers.

That was before 2016.  After 2016 we’ve largely dismantled our capacity to hang on to what we could never regain once lost.

Cap, "you too" wouldn;t really be an effective rebuttal even if it were true.

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(May 17, 2018 at 1:53 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 17, 2018 at 1:39 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I;m foolishly optimistic..but I think we can turn it around.  I don;t think we'll ever regain our former position or status, but a respectable downgrade like the UK's is well within our reach...unless we keep screwing the pooch.

We lost forever the ability to actually regain our former position in the 1960s.  What we had since the 1960s and before 2016 was the ability to hang on to major parts of the hegemonic position we gained before 1960 through a singularly enlightened understanding that a hegemonic power can only stay great and not be toppled through a death of a thousand cuts inflicted by all the other powers in the world if it used its hegemony in a way that profits and enriches all the other powers, it supported a global order that is essentially fair and provides room to grow and gain on the hegemonic power, and the other powers do not feel the hegemonic power is fundamentally enimical to the core interests of other powers.

That was before 2016.  After 2016 we’ve largely dismantled our capacity to hang on to what we could never regain once lost.

b-mine

That;s the part that gnaws at me, and the part that I apply my foolish optimism to.  I'd like to imagine that we can return top a state in which other powers don;t necesarrily agree with our positions..but that they recognize our continued existence -as- a power is beneficial to them in some way.  That we deserve a seat at the table..even if we no longer own the table at which we all sit.  

The only way I can see that happening is if america resumes a front edge position on issues that have global impact.  We need to be seen as problem solvers, again, rather than a problem. People with suggestions, rather than impositions and half baked isolationist policies.

Well, at least Trump won't go empty handed since Chinese government invested $500 million in Trump-linked construction project.

(May 17, 2018 at 1:50 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(May 17, 2018 at 12:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: This will teach those farmers a lesson!

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/china-n...trade-war/




You have no one to blame but yourselves.

So you are this huge free trade advocate all of a sudden? When did that start? Oh yeah, 2016.

You don’t have to be a free trade advocate to relish irony of the fact that particular know nothing protectionist rabble rouser’s base pleasing protectionist policies came back to bit the ass of that very same base.

When did you actually achieve this current state of extraordinary density? Oh, yeah, 2016.

@FM
A paltry sum of money as payment for selling out the united states.  That much change falls down sewer drains....... I;d have asked for more. OFC, our president has shown that he;s not really an astute judge of transactionary value.