Quote:6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Seriously. That's an issue. Also this: WTF did the animals do? And how did Noah find favor with the Lord? Presumably by being righteous. Why didn't God make sure he taught humanity righteousness like he apparently did Noah? Or--since this is early OT God--maybe Noah wasn't righteous at all... maybe he was just good at picking sacrifices.

(October 23, 2018 at 6:08 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

Quote:6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Seriously. That's an issue. Also this: WTF did the animals do? And how did Noah find favor with the Lord? Presumably by being righteous. Why didn't God make sure he taught humanity righteousness like he apparently did Noah? Or--since this is early OT God--maybe Noah wasn't righteous at all... maybe he was just good at picking sacrifices.

Probably he believed in God whereas everyone else had already ditched the poor guy? Or he was the only one whose inclination of the heart was not yet fully wicked? Or maybe God was starting to get sick of all the butt-sex happening among his creation?

As for the animals, I believe they were seen as nothing more than extensions of their human lords. Which meant that whatever the human lords did, the animals also had to suffer the divine consequences along with them.

By the way, there's going to be an even better WTF passage coming up fairly soon (right after the Noah and the Flood account).

I'm familiar enough with Genesis to know we have plenty of WTFs on the horizon. I'm guessing you're talking about Noah and his sons.

(October 23, 2018 at 6:31 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I'm familiar enough with Genesis to know we have plenty of WTFs on the horizon. I'm guessing you're talking about Noah and his sons.

Yeah, that one.

As much as I don't mind serious analyses of scriptures, it's nice to have some "beer moments" as well here.

(October 23, 2018 at 6:08 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

Quote:6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Seriously. That's an issue. Also this: WTF did the animals do? And how did Noah find favor with the Lord? Presumably by being righteous. Why didn't God make sure he taught humanity righteousness like he apparently did Noah? Or--since this is early OT God--maybe Noah wasn't righteous at all... maybe he was just good at picking sacrifices.

There are only two possible answers....

1 - "god" is a fuck up, or

2 -  there is no "god."

(October 23, 2018 at 6:08 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: And how did Noah find favor with the Lord?

I'm not going to suggest that there was anything going on between them.. But the rainbow as a symbol of Gods friendship with man says it all.

Highly recommended: Volume II of Gerard de Nerval's Women of Cairo.

Nerval invents a character, Adoniram, the master artificer of Solomon's temple and lover of the Queen of Sheba. Adoniram travels to the underworld where he meets Tubal-Cain, son of Cain and inventor of technology. It is a wonderful story about the corrupting influence that tech has had on society, but also on the Promethean greatness of builders and artists. 

It's put together from various extra-canonical tales about how Cain invented cities and his descendants gave us the beauty and evil of human creation. Appropriate for a close friend of Baudelaire who actually learned languages in Cairo, travelled to Baghdad back when it was difficult, and eventually went mad on the streets of Paris. My kind of guy.

Noah and the Flood
From Genesis 6:9 to Genesis 9:17

It's a story we're all pretty much familiar with. Men and women have pissed off God way too much that he decides to send a great flood to destroy them all (along with the animals and, don't forget, the babies), but not before he warns Noah and gives him some instructions on how to build a ship/ark that would protect him, his family, and multiple pairs of animals of all kinds from the flood. Once all of them were inside the ark, the flood occurs and lasts for many days, killing all living beings that were outside the ark (except for the fish ... and perhaps the bacteria as well). The waters finally recede completely, and Noah and the gang are out of the ark. Noah then sacrifices some poor birds and animals to God who, enjoying the resulting pleasant aroma, promises that he will never ever flood the earth ever again ... but he'll still unleash fire and brimstone when he wishes to.

This was the first story I read from the Bible that disturbed me as a kid, but I can see why this story was told. The ancients had to "understand" that just as God can rain down blessings, he also rains down curses on them. If God was not pleased with them, they had every reason to be shitting their pants at the prospect of being punished by him. Thankfully, this story still provides some relief for the ancients with the promise that they will never have to worry about a great flood covering the whole world and drowning them all in the process, even when they will continue to displease God. So God is cruel, but he is also forgiving and willing to let go of things.

Also, and I hate to say this to literalist Christians, but that ship seemed way too tight to fit all the animals in it. And yes, there are heaps of problems with this passage from a literalist perspective, but I'll leave it to one of you guys to dissect this passage to the full and nitpick the shit out of it (should any of you choose to do so, of course).

Either way, still nice to read, and clearly shows how frightful God was to ancient humans. What do you guys have to say about this story? There's a lot of gems to glean here, anthropologically speaking. What's the deal with the rainbow, for example? The rainbow exists because God needed an occasional reminder of the covenant he made with Noah?

(October 23, 2018 at 4:31 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Wickedness in the World
Genesis 6:1-8

This short passage is basically a prelude to the story of Noah and the Flood. It emphasizes the wickedness of humankind, and how disappointed God is with them. When God first created the world, everything he saw was good, but once sin started to taint the world, the world was no longer perfect in God's eyes. And now, God plans to destroy the whole world with a flood, but not without informing his best buddy Noah first.

The passage also mentions the mysterious "sons of God" and how they mated with human women, giving birth to the even more mysterious Nephilim (i.e., "heroes of old, men of renown"). I know there are plenty of theories out there as to what these sons of God and Nephilim were meant to be. Anyone got a favorite theory they wish to expound on here?

These possibly were the precursors to the greek gods these were the origins of the demi gods and the others. These were giants who's evil we have nothing to compare too, and the reason God took out everything but the descendants of Adam..

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(October 24, 2018 at 10:27 am)Grandizer Wrote: Noah and the Flood
From Genesis 6:9 to Genesis 9:17

It's a story we're all pretty much familiar with. Men and women have pissed off God way too much that he decides to send a great flood to destroy them all (along with the animals and, don't forget, the babies), but not before he warns Noah and gives him some instructions on how to build a ship/ark that would protect him, his family, and multiple pairs of animals of all kinds from the flood. Once all of them were inside the ark, the flood occurs and lasts for many days, killing all living beings that were outside the ark (except for the fish ... and perhaps the bacteria as well). The waters finally recede completely, and Noah and the gang are out of the ark. Noah then sacrifices some poor birds and animals to God who, enjoying the resulting pleasant aroma, promises that he will never ever flood the earth ever again ... but he'll still unleash fire and brimstone when he wishes to.

This was the first story I read from the Bible that disturbed me as a kid, but I can see why this story was told. The ancients had to "understand" that just as God can rain down blessings, he also rains down curses on them. If God was not pleased with them, they had every reason to be shitting their pants at the prospect of being punished by him. Thankfully, this story still provides some relief for the ancients with the promise that they will never have to worry about a great flood covering the whole world and drowning them all in the process, even when they will continue to displease God. So God is cruel, but he is also forgiving and willing to let go of things.

Also, and I hate to say this to literalist Christians, but that ship seemed way too tight to fit all the animals in it. And yes, there are heaps of problems with this passage from a literalist perspective, but I'll leave it to one of you guys to dissect this passage to the full and nitpick the shit out of it (should any of you choose to do so, of course).

Either way, still nice to read, and clearly shows how frightful God was to ancient humans. What do you guys have to say about this story? There's a lot of gems to glean here, anthropologically speaking. What's the deal with the rainbow, for example? The rainbow exists because God needed an occasional reminder of the covenant he made with Noah?

Got to remember two things.

The world here means the know or knowable world it can mean globe but none of the writers would have had access to that information.

2nd the story of the ark is not about the logistics of how one man saved the world from an angry God. it is how God used the faith of one man and his family to justify saving a portion of the world.

Meaning it was not the physical ark that noah built it was the faith and love Noah put in the ark that had God use noah's efforts to save everything.. think Jesus feeding 5000 with 5 loaves and small 2 fish. It was not the physical loaves and fish jesus used it was the gift or the avenue that jesus used to provide for those 5000. meaning it was not the physical fish and bread as they would run out quickly in a crowd of 5000 but they represented the willingness God had to feed those people using such a modest gift. 

The same is true with the ark. Noah did not build the ark out of defiance or out of spite, rather God used Noah's love and expanded the effort to fit the need to save the world. How did the food last? how did the animals not eat each other how did so many fit in such a small place are all logistical questions one would ask a man who defied God... Rather would you ask God if he came down and put everything and every one in his boat? This is literally a case of "God did it."

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And i did feel bad about all those deaths till I realized that death is our birth into eternity. it is not the bad thing we make it out to always be especially for children.