He thinks that he has been offering arguments and evidence.  Don't you, like, see pretty stuff that means things, man?

God, wtf is wrong with these delusional atheists who don't see pretty stuff that means things.

(April 5, 2019 at 1:02 pm)Acrobat Wrote: In my view the reality we live in and occupy appears to be about something rather than nothing. In fact humanity has long been oriented to such a perception. We're not creatures just looking for ways to survive, but looking for something to live for. We desire meaning, goodness, truth etc.., Are born with this nagging suspicion, that there's something more behind the curtain, that life is more than the sum of its parts.

When I talk about childish arguments this is the sort of thing I mean. It is the mindset of a toddler.

I am not joking there is litterallya stage of brain development where people look for reasons for things to exist.

In the mind of a two year old fish live in the sea, therefore the sea is for fish to live in, if there is a thing with a purpose then obviously there was a purpose giver...

Most people outgrow this and realise that fish live in the sea because that is how they have evolved to be. However some people stay in a childlike mentality and that's one of the reasons for religion.

(April 4, 2019 at 1:54 pm)Acrobat Wrote: We live in a reality that appears to be playing a tune, something that lies at the heart of its excessiveness and ugliness, and beauty, within all its joy and pain.

No we don't.

(April 4, 2019 at 1:54 pm)Acrobat Wrote: There’s something to all of this, that points, to things like we ought to be good, be kind and not cruel, to love rather than hate. That when we see a good person,  we see something whole about him, and something empty and absent about a bad one. We see things like cruelty, violence, hatred, resentment, etc as part of darkness, and things like kindness, compassion, mercy, justice as part of the light. 

Do you think this describes the god of the bible. One of the most vicious and vindictive characters in all fiction. A being that is supposed to have killed but a few creatures on the planet and all but one family of people. That is not a good being.

(although I must say again I don't believe a word of it it is what some theists believe)

(April 4, 2019 at 1:54 pm)Acrobat Wrote: That there’s something profound about the March from Selma, and something corrupted by the violence directed at its non-violent participants. 

This is a out of nowhere and seems unrelated to anything to do with god.

(April 4, 2019 at 1:54 pm)Acrobat Wrote: We live not as empty little biological creatures, just procreating and surviving, but as far more excessive of a being than we ever needed to be, one’s capable of being moved beyond all measure, capable of recognizing depth and beauty that’s difficult to even take in. We’re not creatures existing in a reality uninterested, but a reality playing for us a tune, that perhaps we currently only hear vaguely, but we hear it nonetheless. One that’s about something, rather than nothing. 

Well "just no", seems to cover it.

(April 5, 2019 at 1:02 pm)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 5, 2019 at 12:14 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: @Acrobat

I diverge from most of my atheist counterparts in terms of the question “do you wish there was a god”. I do wish there was a god, and atheism is not my preferred position. So, if you have a good reason to believe in god, I’d most certainly like to hear it.

In my view the reality we live in and occupy appears to be about something rather than nothing. In fact humanity has long been oriented to such a perception. We're not creatures just looking for ways to survive, but looking for something to live for. We desire meaning, goodness, truth etc.., Are born with this nagging suspicion, that there's something more behind the curtain, that life is more than the sum of its parts. We live in a reality that appears to be playing a tune, something that lies at the heart of its excessiveness and ugliness, and beauty, within all its joy and pain. 

There’s something to all of this, that points, to things like we ought to be good, be kind and not cruel, to love rather than hate. That when we see a good person,  we see something whole about him, and something empty and absent about a bad one. We see things like cruelty, violence, hatred, resentment, etc as part of darkness, and things like kindness, compassion, mercy, justice as part of the light. 

That there’s something profound about the March from Selma, and something corrupted by the violence directed at its non-violent participants. 

We live not as empty little biological creatures, just procreating and surviving, but as far more excessive of a being than we ever needed to be, one’s capable of being moved beyond all measure, capable of recognizing depth and beauty that’s difficult to even take in. We’re not creatures existing in a reality uninterested, but a reality playing for us a tune, that perhaps we currently only hear vaguely, but we hear it nonetheless. One that’s about something, rather than nothing. 

Poetic as all that is, it’s still a mere assertion.

(April 3, 2019 at 11:22 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Conversely, mine has been.  I started out as an agnostic atheist for no discernible reason.  I became a gnostic atheist much later, for reasons, and my mind is no longer open to the possibility of gods being anything other than fiction.

My reasons didn't alter my atheism, I was an atheist before and after - so they couldn't really be said to be the cause of my atheism.  They altered my confidence in a knowledge statement.  Sometimes, as unsatisfying as it may be, the answer to the question "but why are you like that" really is, "IDK, just the way I am".  An irreducible fact.

I dropped the agnostic bit years ago, 'it cannot be known if god exists'. Of course it can, he could show up and do some god stuff. A few thousand years ago he was creating universe's and turning fish into bread, or whatever the fuck it was but now he appears on slices of toast and dogs arses. The incredible shrinking god.

Yeah there are alot of different ways to justify a knowledge claim on that one.  I go a different route, myself.

(April 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Where did it exist before the universe/time existed?

This is a silly question.
"Before time existed"? What does that mean?

Doesn't "before X" imply the existence of a time prior to X?

---

I think Acrobat is mostly arguing for the god of the philosophers, stemming from humanity's shared perception of beauty of the world around us, of our shared traits that allow us to thrive and live in community.

I think an awareness of how evolution shaped humans into such perceptions would do wonders, but the need for belief runs deeper than intellectual honesty.
Of course, considering reading a book by Dawkins, such as the Extended Phenotype, is blasphemous.

(April 4, 2019 at 3:55 pm)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 4, 2019 at 3:49 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: It should be clear to you what you mean, though.  Make the case for that.

Or, if you think you have, quote one of those previous comments and replace whatever word you tookto communicate as "god" in bold.

Why? If I can argue my views without having to use the word God, thereby avoiding have to deal with your caricature conceptions of God, and having to spell everything out for you, why not? Particularly when you disagree with these views, even absent of mentioning God in them?

Why can’t you stick to the views I’ve expressed? Why I can’t my arguments be solely about them?

But you claim to know God exists so it naturally follows that you have a full understanding of every aspect of this God. So why not enlighten those of us who are destined to burn as to the real characteristics of God. I mean isn't it your duty as a Christian to give us the good news?

I can't say I care one way or the other

(April 5, 2019 at 9:56 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(April 3, 2019 at 6:16 pm)Belaqua Wrote: The Pure Lackists deny this, say they are atheists for no reason at all, and in some cases claim that their minds are the same as when they were infants.

Would you name someone here that you think would agree with that characterization of themselves, please?

And what the utter fuck is a lackist?

(April 5, 2019 at 5:26 pm)Succubus Wrote:

(April 5, 2019 at 9:56 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Would you name someone here that you think would agree with that characterization of themselves, please?

And what the utter fuck is a lackist?

A term for people who say they simply lack belief in god .