I have read all of the sunni hadiths from sunnah.com

Now i am on Ibn Kathir tafsir (tafsirs in general).

and i finally realised why this is so different from the bible. See the bible is pretty much long but it gets over when you are done. So it just wanna shame you for thinking certain way and to realise why it is true. Islamic ways is different.
You wont learn anything about sunni islamic laws from the quran, trust me. Most of those in saudi arabia and middle east are from sunni hadiths, it would be like saying you know christianity from just reading the book of psalm, it wont happen
Here is the thing. The thing about it is, there is lot of literature on it. But it has no point really outside maybe hadiths but even in those it doesnt get to the point easily. The main point is to tire you as a reader out.

It goes along like this "fear HELL dont move to the wrong path. Hell for the wrongdoer... it goes on and on and random stuff gets thrown around... its a genius brainwashing mechanic to get followers. It may say something nice to not be too brutal to the reader.. and then it reminds you of HORRIBLE TORMENT"

The whole idea is to tire you out just to give up. (atleast this would be a thing during the 7th century timeline) But its more or less that type of method that religious culture is counting on.

May also explain why Islam means submission as a whole.. it pretty much states it there.

But what do you think?

I think you should start reading different fiction books. They are more satisfying.

Welcome to the forum. Woof!

How about an intro thread, before joining a bunch of atheists that don't believe gods by definition. It's a thing, good manners.

If you think the Islamic literature is tiring, have a go at the Book Of Mormon sometime.

Boru

(April 17, 2019 at 12:38 pm)Sogni921 Wrote: I have read all of the sunni hadiths from sunnah.com

Now i am on Ibn Kathir tafsir (tafsirs in general).

and i finally realised why this is so different from the bible. See the bible is pretty much long but it gets over when you are done. So it just wanna shame you for thinking certain way and to realise why it is true. Islamic ways is different.
You wont learn anything about sunni islamic laws from the quran, trust me. Most of those in saudi arabia and middle east are from sunni hadiths, it would be like saying you know christianity from just reading the book of psalm, it wont happen
Here is the thing. The thing about it is, there is lot of literature on it. But it has no point really outside maybe hadiths but even in those it doesnt get to the point easily. The main point is to tire you as a reader out.

It goes along like this "fear HELL dont move to the wrong path. Hell for the wrongdoer... it goes on and on and random stuff gets thrown around... its a genius brainwashing mechanic to get followers. It may say something nice to not be too brutal to the reader.. and then it reminds you of HORRIBLE TORMENT"

The whole idea is to tire you out just to give up. (atleast this would be a thing during the 7th century timeline) But its more or less that type of method that religious culture is counting on.

May also explain why Islam means submission as a whole.. it pretty much states it there.

But what do you think?

I don't single out any one religion, not even Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists or Jews or Christians.

I think most humans are good, but violence has never escaped our species history to greater or lesser degrees worldwide. 

Religion is merely a superstitious form of politics. It is still designed to set up social order, just like political and economic ideology.

Currently in the west, it is very easy to focus on Islam in this point in human history. But I do warn this is short sighted in our entire species history.

Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate, is not a patent owned by one religion, nor does any label worldwide have any magic power to make an individual human only do good or only do bad. 

The Terracotta Warriors of ancient China were very religious, very Orwellian in mindset and worshiped authority blindly. The Japanese WW2 Empire also viewed their Emperor as a divinely inspired leader. Even the Kim Family of North Korea has sold their population the myth that the founder of NK and his offspring were/are living Gods. 

Hitler too, while many falsely claim he was an atheist, had his own personal brand of occult/Catholicism/ deism, and did attribute his rule to coming from "providence". 

So to claim Islam is about submission, that certainly is true, it can be. But the concept of divine social structure and blind loyalty is not an invention of Islam.

(April 17, 2019 at 2:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 12:38 pm)Sogni921 Wrote: I have read all of the sunni hadiths from sunnah.com

Now i am on Ibn Kathir tafsir (tafsirs in general).

and i finally realised why this is so different from the bible. See the bible is pretty much long but it gets over when you are done. So it just wanna shame you for thinking certain way and to realise why it is true. Islamic ways is different.
You wont learn anything about sunni islamic laws from the quran, trust me. Most of those in saudi arabia and middle east are from sunni hadiths, it would be like saying you know christianity from just reading the book of psalm, it wont happen
Here is the thing. The thing about it is, there is lot of literature on it. But it has no point really outside maybe hadiths but even in those it doesnt get to the point easily. The main point is to tire you as a reader out.

It goes along like this "fear HELL dont move to the wrong path. Hell for the wrongdoer... it goes on and on and random stuff gets thrown around... its a genius brainwashing mechanic to get followers. It may say something nice to not be too brutal to the reader.. and then it reminds you of HORRIBLE TORMENT"

The whole idea is to tire you out just to give up. (atleast this would be a thing during the 7th century timeline) But its more or less that type of method that religious culture is counting on.

May also explain why Islam means submission as a whole.. it pretty much states it there.

But what do you think?

I don't single out any one religion, not even Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists or Jews or Christians.

I think most humans are good, but violence has never escaped our species history to greater or lesser degrees worldwide. 

Religion is merely a superstitious form of politics. It is still designed to set up social order, just like political and economic ideology.

Currently in the west, it is very easy to focus on Islam in this point in human history. But I do warn this is short sighted in our entire species history.

Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate, is not a patent owned by one religion, nor does any label worldwide have any magic power to make an individual human only do good or only do bad. 

The Terracotta Warriors of ancient China were very religious, very Orwellian in mindset and worshiped authority blindly. The Japanese WW2 Empire also viewed their Emperor as a divinely inspired leader. Even the Kim Family of North Korea has sold their population the myth that the founder of NK and his offspring were/are living Gods. 

Hitler too, while many falsely claim he was an atheist, had his own personal brand of occult/Catholicism/ deism, and did attribute his rule to coming from "providence". 

So to claim Islam is about submission, that certainly is true, it can be. But the concept of divine social structure and blind loyalty is not an invention of Islam.

You mean humans are inherently selfish (neutral evil). The word "good" can be many things but shouldn't be used to describe natural forces of the human mind. We are selfish earth inhabitants that are not really selfless unless we remove the notion of doing something for someone or some people for yourself or your outward image like companies do to make them look better in the eyes of the public.

Humanity can't do away with the supernatural because we engraved our non existent supernatural world into our everyday lives with this lie of how "good" we are.

Your view does not explain the reason why some Muslims practice their religion based on real, personal belief, and total understanding for its rules and constraints.

The other opinion is that constitutions and codes of ethics that humans practice here on earth are not really satisfactory in all conditions; thus some people seek refugee in Islam's holy Quran. Islam as a word means submission as you said; and a Muslim must take a personal oath to abandon human beliefs and seek total refugee under God.

In other words; the secret for Islam's success is that it's simply providing a better story for our existence and a better system of rights stated in the Quran. Human laws and constraints failed to protect humanity and caused 2 world wars and caused us all to reach the bottleneck of apocalypse: nations of confused people aiming nukes at each other.

As we all know, islamic countries are bastions of peace and human rights.

(April 18, 2019 at 4:00 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Your view does not explain the reason why some Muslims practice their religion based on real, personal belief, and total understanding for its rules and constraints.

The other opinion is that constitutions and codes of ethics that humans practice here on earth are not really satisfactory in all conditions; thus some people seek refugee in Islam's holy Quran. Islam as a word means submission as you said; and a Muslim must take a personal oath to abandon human beliefs and seek total refugee under God.

In other words; the secret for Islam's success is that it's simply providing a better story for our existence and a better system of rights stated in the Quran. Human laws and constraints failed to protect humanity and caused 2 world wars and caused us all to reach the bottleneck of apocalypse: nations of confused people aiming nukes at each other.

Because they are brainwashed at a early age or brainwashed when at a weakness state like after a death in the family or a nation in a warlike state. It happens many times when someone offers  that a loved one is going to heaven or you can go to heaven or burn in hell if you do anything wrong. Control and manipulation plus sweet candy voices of a faraway land called heaven where an all powerful being loves you and has chosen you, who doesn't want that right? Islam is just one of many, but like you said 1 billion Muslims live in the world. So lets change that shall we:1 billion brainwashed noobs

The Quran is indeed a much more streamlined document, for someone who picks it up and reads it through (or has it forced on them). It constantly reinforces its themes as noted, trying to produce a broken-down mental state of submission and hatred/suspicion towards the out-group.

The Bible, by comparison, is just a mess. It’s a big pile of stories all loosely cobbled together, with themes going all over the place; but still with a general theme of submission to god and negativity towards the out-group.