(May 19, 2023 at 10:05 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(May 19, 2023 at 10:01 am)KerimF Wrote: Of course, I did. And my high studies gave me enough knowledge, as a start, to run a private business, since about 4 decades ago, in designing/producing various electronic products that the local consumers have needed in every period of time.

Including those periods of time before men had ready sources of electricity?

After the powerful rich world's Elite decided to also save the people among whom I was born and live (as many other peoples were saved and their countries were destroyed), the mains supply (220V, 50Hz) in my city became something in the past while it lives the terrorist daily attacks, for about 5 years. Now, things are much better, the mains supply are provided for about 4 to 6 hours daily. Therefore, my main products, since year 2011 till now (and during the terror time) are various DC to AC inverters and what could be related to solar panels (as the controlled chargers of acid batteries).

(May 19, 2023 at 8:50 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Humans aren't robots by definition.

robot
1. (especially in science fiction) a machine resembling a human being and able to replicate certain human movements and functions automatically.

Our brain functions being explainable electrochemically doesn't make us robots; robots are machines that emulate humans in some way. It also doesn't follow that we are 'programmed'. We are able to think about our actions and act accordingly, the opposite of 'being programmed'. When we don't arrive at decisions by thourght, we can fairly be described as 'acting according to our programming'.

"What is the meaning of being programmed?
From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English to be programmed: if a person or an animal is programmed socially or biologically to do something, they do it without thinking.... All birds of this species are programmed to build their nests in the same way."

Whenever you think to reach a decision, you are actually executing some complex conditional branch instructions (as if... else... etc.) preprogrammed in your body.

The definitions given in dictionaries are certainly made by humans too. And humans, in general, are not supposed (by design) to be aware completely they are just an evolved version of animals. The only difference is that their preprogrammed instructions have also evolved with time and become, to a great extent, much more complex than of their far past animal's ancestors.

Doesn't an AI robot seem to think when you ask it a question or have a conversation with it? 
The only difference is that we know it is robot because we can also know the company which produced it.
But, in case of humans, since the Company of the Will behind their creation cannot be seen, a human can easily object whenever someone tries to show him how close he is to a man-made AI robot.

The only real free-will that, a human may have, is his ability to oppose, or not, his preprogrammed instructions embedded in his living flesh (like allowing some attackers to kill him while he had all the necessary the means to destroy them). After all, let us recall that it would be really silly that a robot is also allowed ny its maker(s) to ignore its inner instructions. This is why this exact real free-will makes a human be different from all sorts of robots.

(May 19, 2023 at 10:15 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(May 19, 2023 at 10:05 am)KerimF Wrote: Sorry for not being clearer. I am talking about trusting another person as you trust yourself.
Obviously, if someone cannot trust himself, 'trusting another person' should have no meaning at all to him.

I don't trust myself in all things, either.  But it becomes a bit of an incoherent standard as I cannot decide to exclude myself from some things as I would a friend, so it's not clear how a friendship could ever meet such a bar if for no other reason than that trust in myself is categorically different from trust in another.

Let us return to basics.
My point is that if... I said if... two persons are able to have an unlimited mutual trust, they are no more seen by an outsider as two persons but just One being having One will no matter to whom (of the two) he tries to contact.

I was really hoping the magic word was 'tryst'.

(May 19, 2023 at 10:01 am)KerimF Wrote:

(May 19, 2023 at 6:07 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: So you claim to have gone to school?

Of course, I did. And my high studies gave me enough knowledge, as a start, to run a private business, since about 4 decades ago, in designing/producing various electronic products that the local consumers have needed in every period of time.

I spent fourteen years at Purdue.

Your turn.

(May 19, 2023 at 11:16 am)arewethereyet Wrote: I was really hoping the magic word was 'tryst'.

Since my English is rather narrow, I am not sure what the meaning of 'tryst' is exactly.
It seems related somehow to the word 'love'. True Love has to be based on trust.

I guess it would be nonsense hearing someone telling another, I love you, but I can't trust you. But it is also all sense, if it is about the chemical love

(May 19, 2023 at 8:54 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(May 19, 2023 at 3:33 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: While trust is a component of friendship, I don't think that trust necessitates friendship. For instance, I can trust so-and-so to do me harm, it doesn't make him my friend.

Unconditional love is nonsense. ALL love is conditional.

Boru

"So-and-so"??

I have a name!!

Feel free to do me harm. Or just do me…😜

Boru

(May 19, 2023 at 11:02 am)KerimF Wrote: The only real free-will that, a human may have, is his ability to oppose, or not, his preprogrammed instructions embedded in his living flesh.

Shades of randian free will in here.  The notion that the only real or actual freedom we possess is whether to employ whatever agency we possess.  We are still who we are, it's still going to do what it's going to do.

I'm not so sure this is meaningfully different from the freedom an ai possesses. What's with all the design and "Company of the Will " nonsense, it doesn't seem to be doing anything, just a dangling assertion.

(May 19, 2023 at 3:33 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: While trust is a component of friendship, I don't think that trust necessitates friendship. For instance, I can trust so-and-so to do me harm, it doesn't make him my friend.

Unconditional love is nonsense. ALL love is conditional.

Boru

So, we are just talking about two different worlds and words like 'Trust' and Unconditional Love' have totally different meanings in them.
I mean on your side, you are totally right.

(May 19, 2023 at 8:38 am)KerimF Wrote:

(May 19, 2023 at 2:21 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: How about this.

Start over.  It's glaringly obvious you are a theist of some sort, and so am I, I just happen to have the correct belief system and you don't.

Tell us about yourself and what you believe, Because this long drawn out trolling isn't going to get you anywhere. For one you are far too heavy-handed with the faux chagrins and 'Oh whelps'.

If you can do that you may get a conversation, If not then I will assume you to be a troll/Sock.

It seems that I have to repeat myself here because you surely didn't have time to read all I wrote.

First, I am a rational scientific man. I accept an idea while being based solely on reason (the same logical reasoning on which my scientific studies are based), so it is out of question for me to believe something based on faith.

Although I believe that I am supposed to be a biological robot which has to follow its preprogrammed various instructions (instincts, stimulated by chemicals), the only free-will I was also given is the ability to oppose any of these instructions whenever I want.
Naturally, if a robot is deigned to defend itself whenever it is attacked, it is not supposed to it to allow its attackers to destroy it while it was given all the means to destroy them first.
Some persons here insist that even 'not resisting evil' is due to the existence of some chemicals (extra preprogrammed instructions) whose role is to cancel the role of some other chemicals (as of survival). Since these persons call themselves atheists, we may say that an atheist is supposed to believe that he is somehow a perfect biological robot made just to serve the world till its End Of Service.

Now, you may ask for example:
What lets you decide not to resist evil?
I am afraid that the answer cannot be understood by robots even they want to.
I mean; Could they believe me that by doing this I simply feel a certain joy (not bounded by time or place), and by resisting evil I just feel I am another robot doing its job?
Please tell me, how many persons agree with me on this reaction other than Jesus (real or a fictional character) whom we heard of on the Gospel.

On the other hand, do I believe it is possible for a non-existent thing be useful in my life?
Of course, I do. Otherwise, I couldn't learn Geometry and Algebra to name a few.
They are based on many abstract non-existing things; as the notion of 'infinity' (parallel straights intersect at infinity) and imaginary numbers (based on the square root of -1).
So, it was natural for me to realize with time that behind the existence of my complex being (my complex robotic nature, in the least) there is a Will. But this belief has no practical information by itself unless I can also discover the nature of this Will.
So, let us suppose one gets a robot whose makers are unknown. How could he have a good idea of its unknown makers (the company which produced it)? As in movies about aliens from space, he starts finding out how it is made and for which reason it is made as well. This is exactly what I did by studying my own structure in order to have a realistic image of my unseen Maker.

Sorry, is it wise to go on while we are in an atheist forum? I have no intension to hurt, in any way, my atheist (also theists) friends here by giving them the impression that I am preaching.

A simple "No I'm going to keep trolling" would have sufficed.

Apparently, you're going to run this into the ground.  Your replies are rife with baiting language, I can tell you others here will see through you as well.

Good luck.

I'll keep you in my prayers.  RAmen