He didn't get shot because america has too many guns. If we assess gun violence by including the number of guns and rates of ownership we are easily the most peaceful gun nuts on the face of the planet. Let's have the healthcare and leave americans rights intact. See how that goes. I bet fewer healthcare ceos get shot.

I'm sure the millions left to them will somehow allow the family to survive.

(December 6, 2024 at 9:09 pm)Sheldon Wrote: If any presidential candidate suggested nationalising health care, to provide for everyone, guess what the reaction would be.

That's what has me puzzled. Three days of posts on X and Facebook and nobody is defending the status quo. The only dissenters are the ones who have sympathy for any murder victim, regardless of how evil they are. Nobody is defending capitalized health care.

Because poverty shouldn't be a death sentence.

I can understand this sentiment: it seems like the right night to rewatch "V is for Vendetta".

(December 6, 2024 at 11:23 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Because poverty shouldn't be a death sentence.

Right, agreed. But how come such an overwhelming majority seem to agree with that now vs. all the disagreements that come up when single-payer health plans come up as a political issue? Democrats have tried to address this and come up against fierce push-back.

Attempting to understand the human condition doesn't even keep psychologists sane.

This is bound to happen when health care is profitized and insurance companies value dollars over lives.

(December 7, 2024 at 12:58 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: This is bound to happen when health care is profitized and insurance companies value dollars over lives.

Yeah, the older I get, the more convinced I become that this is morally wrong.

Yes, there are practical considerations. The money to pay for someone's health care has to come from somewhere. At this point in time, we are not a post-scarcity civilization. At some point, we run up against limits and hard choices have to be made. We can't draw blood out of a stone. But currently, we have these corporations profiting off of dying, desperate people.

Profit is not a dirty word. I believe in capitalism. It is a powerful engine that has given us great power and prosperity but there is a time and place for it. Nobody should be profiting off the financing of healthcare because they are at odds! Capitalization of research and development of healthcare tech is fine because such R & D might never take place without monetary incentive. But financing of patient health care is directly at odds with profit. The more an insurance company pays out in order to facilitate patient care, the poorer is their bottom line. And their bottom line is their first priority! So insurance companies should not be in the loop! As long as they are, they are public enemies who the populace at large will cheer on when one of their execs runs afoul of some heavy metal poisoning.

(December 7, 2024 at 1:40 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(December 7, 2024 at 12:58 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: This is bound to happen when health care is profitized and insurance companies value dollars over lives.

Yeah, the older I get, the more convinced I become that this is morally wrong.

Yes, there are practical considerations. The money to pay for someone's health care has to come from somewhere. At this point in time, we are not a post-scarcity civilization. At some point, we run up against limits and hard choices have to be made. We can't draw blood out of a stone. But currently, we have these corporations profiting off of dying, desperate people.

Profit is not a dirty word. I believe in capitalism. It is a powerful engine that has given us great power and prosperity but there is a time and place for it. Nobody should be profiting off the financing of healthcare because they are at odds!  Capitalization of research and development of healthcare tech is fine because such R & D might never take place without monetary incentive. But financing of patient health care is directly at odds with profit. The more an insurance company pays out in order to facilitate patient care, the poorer is their bottom line. And their bottom line is their first priority! So insurance companies should not be in the loop! As long as they are, they are public enemies who the populace at large will cheer on when one of their execs runs afoul of some heavy metal poisoning.

Deciding who lives and who dies because patient A's treatment is more soluble than patient B's in terms of ducats is understandable when you're running a business, much less so if you actually care about people.

The American electorate seems to have decided already that they value 401k investments over, you know, Grandma and Grandpa.