(November 5, 2012 at 12:07 pm)Ryantology Wrote: It is desirable to be 'wanted' by a capricious mass murderer?

Again killing another person in of itself is not a sin. It is intentionally killing that person outside the will of God that makes it murder. If You are speaking about being wanted by God, then understand He is not a mass murderer, as he has sanctioned those deaths.

If you owned 10,000 cows, and a 1/3 of them were sick with a disease that would wipe out the whole flock and you decided to separate them from the rest of the flock and kill them, is it considered murder (by sane people?)

No, Why because You own those cows and they are their to do with as you wish. Now if someone else were to slaughter 1/3 of your cows you might take issue with that. But as they belong to you, You can do with them as you will. What you don't seem to understand is that you belong to God to do with whatever he wills. If He decides to take back the live you have borrowed from Him then understand the life you live is not yours, and He can rightfully take what belongs to Him.

Quote:appeal to his peers.

I'd rather examine the motivations of the men who created your god. That seems far more likely to produce understanding.

(November 5, 2012 at 12:19 pm)Drich Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 12:07 pm)Ryantology Wrote: It is desirable to be 'wanted' by a capricious mass murderer?

Again killing another person in of itself is not a sin. It is intentionally killing that person outside the will of God that makes it murder. If You are speaking about being wanted by God, then understand He is not a mass murderer, as he has sanctioned those deaths.

If you owned 10,000 cows, and a 1/3 of them were sick with a disease that would wipe out the whole flock and you decided to separate them from the rest of the flock and kill them, is it considered murder (by sane people?)

No, Why because You own those cows and they are their to do with as you wish. Now if someone else were to slaughter 1/3 of your cows you might take issue with that. But as they belong to you, You can do with them as you will. What you don't seem to understand is that you belong to God to do with whatever he wills. If He decides to take back the live you have borrowed from Him then understand the life you live is not yours, and He can rightfully take what belongs to Him.

Let's turn that around to our court.
Let's say there are no humans.
Some cows kill a few others and claim there's this human which leads them and he told them to kill those others.
If there are no humans, then this particular human couldn't lead those cows, nor could he tell them anything.
Hence, the cows made up this human character so they could have an excuse... an excuse for killing, in this case.

(November 5, 2012 at 12:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(November 5, 2012 at 12:19 pm)Drich Wrote: Again killing another person in of itself is not a sin. It is intentionally killing that person outside the will of God that makes it murder. If You are speaking about being wanted by God, then understand He is not a mass murderer, as he has sanctioned those deaths.

If you owned 10,000 cows, and a 1/3 of them were sick with a disease that would wipe out the whole flock and you decided to separate them from the rest of the flock and kill them, is it considered murder (by sane people?)

No, Why because You own those cows and they are their to do with as you wish. Now if someone else were to slaughter 1/3 of your cows you might take issue with that. But as they belong to you, You can do with them as you will. What you don't seem to understand is that you belong to God to do with whatever he wills. If He decides to take back the live you have borrowed from Him then understand the life you live is not yours, and He can rightfully take what belongs to Him.

Let's turn that around to our court.
Let's say there are no humans.
Some cows kill a few others and claim there's this human which leads them and he told them to kill those others.
If there are no humans, then this particular human couldn't lead those cows, nor could he tell them anything.
Hence, the cows made up this human character so they could have an excuse... an excuse for killing, in this case.

That is the thing. When you judge the character of God for issuing the command to commit genocide then you are accepting that thier is a God, otherwise your judgement is meaningless. For you are not calling doubt on the preists or phrophets who took God's command and gave them to the people. You are questioning the command itself and God's 'morality' for issueing that command therefore accepting their is indeed a God to judge.

If you are not then you are in the wrong thread, and need to start a new one.

(November 5, 2012 at 12:19 pm)Drich Wrote: Again killing another person in of itself is not a sin.

Thank you for proving my initial point.

Quote: It is intentionally killing that person outside the will of God that makes it murder.

Thank you for proving my initial point. Again.

Quote:If You are speaking about being wanted by God, then understand He is not a mass murderer, as he has sanctioned those deaths.

Thank you for proving my initial point. A third time.

Quote:If you owned 10,000 cows, and a 1/3 of them were sick with a disease that would wipe out the whole flock and you decided to separate them from the rest of the flock and kill them, is it considered murder (by sane people?)

No. Doing it because the cows didn't praise me enough would be murder.

Quote:But as they belong to you, You can do with them as you will.

Thank you for proving my initial point. Four times.

Quote:What you don't seem to understand is that you belong to God to do with whatever he wills. If He decides to take back the live you have borrowed from Him then understand the life you live is not yours, and He can rightfully take what belongs to Him.

You have done, in this one post, everything I accused you of doing in my first. I knew I could rely on you!

Quote:That is the thing. When you judge the character of God for issuing the command to commit genocide then you are accepting that thier is a God, otherwise your judgement is meaningless. For you are not calling doubt on the preists or phrophets who took God's command and gave them to the people. You are questioning the command itself and God's 'morality' for issueing that command therefore accepting their is indeed a God to judge.

Ah, but that is precisely what I was not doing. I am indicting God on his actions only to show that Christians are morally complicit in God's crimes if they praise him. The true purpose, of course, is to make Christians ask themselves why they would not only praise such a terrible evil, but why they would feel compelled to argue that this terrible evil is the 'ultimate good'. The result of this is that Christians are death cultists who, through their faith and devotion, praise the works of men like Hitler because the God they consider to be 'good' is precisely the same kind of character Hitler was: narcissistic, bloodthirsty and delighted with his own cruelty.

Quote:When you judge the character of God for issuing the command to commit genocide then you are accepting that thier is a God, otherwise your judgement is meaningless.

Incorrect, Drippy. Since there is no fucking god one must wonder about the nature of people who think genocide is cool.

I keep coming up with some insecure desert tribesman who had to envision an omnipotent big brother so they wouldn't keep getting their lunch money stolen on the playground.

It takes one to know one, Min, and Yahweh is suspiciously like earlier "jealous" gods whom humans created to explain disasters - and well, if the guy who explained it thought the way Yahweh seems to...

In the mythology of the rest of the ANE we don't find this pre-occupation with slaughtering enemies and dashing babies against rocks and raping virgins and all the rest of the holy horseshit, Summer.

Yahweh is basically a scarecrow...designed to keep the bigger guys away.


Didn't work, of course.

(November 5, 2012 at 12:37 pm)Drich Wrote:

---

(November 5, 2012 at 12:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Let's turn that around to our court.
Let's say there are no humans.
Some cows kill a few others and claim there's this human which leads them and he told them to kill those others.
If there are no humans, then this particular human couldn't lead those cows, nor could he tell them anything.
Hence, the cows made up this human character so they could have an excuse... an excuse for killing, in this case.

---

That is the thing. When you judge the character of God for issuing the command to commit genocide then you are accepting that thier is a God, otherwise your judgement is meaningless. For you are not calling doubt on the preists or phrophets who took God's command and gave them to the people. You are questioning the command itself and God's 'morality' for issueing that command therefore accepting their is indeed a God to judge.

If you are not then you are in the wrong thread, and need to start a new one.

Ok.... wait for it....













Agreed!
with the bold part.
The thread is about christians, not god in particular.

If you assume there is a god and he is the abrahamic one, then you have to accept him as what he is.
If that turns out to be "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" [Dawkins_tm], then so be it.
It's just good to know that christians agree with this and even back it up.
That just makes me so much surer that I never want to be a part of that group of people.

(November 5, 2012 at 12:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: In the mythology of the rest of the ANE we don't find this pre-occupation with slaughtering enemies and dashing babies against rocks and raping virgins and all the rest of the holy horseshit, Summer.

Yahweh is basically a scarecrow...designed to keep the bigger guys away.


Didn't work, of course.

The way it was pieced together for me is that originally (as one can read in the Torah) Yahweh was one of many but (according to his followers) bigger and badder, so it made sense to me that he would be made out to be a bigger asshole than the rest until eventually someone convinced everyone else that he was the ONLY asshole. And then you're stuck with all his shittiness from before.