(November 24, 2013 at 4:09 am)Cinjin Wrote: I've often directed new theist members using the No True Scotsman argument to this site.
Well, I now have first-person proof that preachers leave the faith. On Wednesday of this week I personally met a former pentecostal black preacher.

I know I know ... you probably think I'm full of shit. I mean what is the likelihood of meeting not only a former preacher turned atheist, but a pentecostal who also happens to be a BLACK man?!? I mean seriously, the odds I would randomly meet this individual have got to be about as good as a chance meeting with Barack Obama. On my son's life though, this is the complete truth.

Anyway, read the following to understand where I'm going with this.





A question presented on Yahoo and the #1 chosen answer:
What is "the peace that passeth all understanding" that Jesus gives to Christians?

The Answers Given Wrote:That peace is what you receive once you surrender all to Christ. Surrender everything in your life to Him completely. It's hard for us to do that........to trust that completely. Even when you go through hard and difficult times, you KNOW that God and Christ are with you and that your circumstances will recover in such a way as to see you through.
It is the inner calmness promised to the believer who has a thankful attitude based on unwavering confidence that God is able and willing to do what is best for them. Their trust in Him brings about a peace that transcends human intellect, and human analysis. This peace guards, a military term meaning "to keep watch over". God's peace guards the believer from anxiety, fear, and worry because of their trust in Him.

My argument has always been this:
NO ONE would EVER give that kind of peace away if it was real. NO ONE. You couldn't read a man enough history books, or convince a man with enough evidence, or offer him anything on this earth that would EVER sway him to get rid of something that offered that kind of unfathomable inner peace.

And Yet ...
There I sat with a former black pentecostal preacher who left his faith behind because quote, "it simply isn't real."
To me this has always been the final nail in the casket of christianity. When even the devout shepherd of the flock can turn his back on this supposed "peace that passeth all understanding" you can be sure that it was always just another big fat lie from the bible.


So much for the No True Christian argument.

As far as "inner piece" is concerned, everyone tires to sell a version of it to someone else. It doesn't work, it has to be real.

For instance, I remember when I was around 5, my Dad was teaching me to ride my new bike. He'd push me at get me going and let go, I'd go for a ways and (mildly) crash. It wasn't too big of deal, until i ran into a parked car and actually ate it pretty hard. I remember him running over and scooping me up as my knee bled like a mother, and my first "inner piece" experience took place. My knee still hurt, I was still scared to get back on my bike, and my Dad still later in life did some dumb things for our family. But, in that moment things, while a little bloody and painful, did seem hopeful.

Any group trying to legislate or present "inner piece" other that what is authentic and relevant to our lives, should be suspect.
As an adult, the last few years as I have searched honestly for hope to our sometimes shitty lives, I have had that same scooped-up feeling, even though things still sucked, there was hope. But to be complete there needs to be an intellectual component, not just a whimsical emotion component to bring it all together.
By the way, my knee healed up fine.

Quote:If they make it God is real if they don't none of it is real.

None of it is real anyway. drippy.

(November 24, 2013 at 8:37 pm)FiniteImmortal Wrote: "inner piece"

How does one who displays a competent grasp of grammar misspell peace three times?

Wait a f'in minute - you're trying to equate Pentecostal with peaceful?

(November 24, 2013 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

You're just some random dumbass on the internet. I'd think it more likely that you're talking about things in which you don't really believe than someone who is openly investing a lot in their beliefs.

You just can't seem to accept the fact that people can have faith and lose it.

That being said, when I took my faith seriously, I did feel some measure of peace in the beginning. That lasted only as long as I could fool myself into thinking there had to be a good reason why the God I kept trying to talk to refused to answer. Then, it started having quite the opposite effect.

(November 24, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(November 24, 2013 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

You're just some random dumbass on the internet. I'd think it more likely that you're talking about things in which you don't really believe than someone who is openly investing a lot in their beliefs.

You just can't seem to accept the fact that people can have faith and lose it.

That being said, when I took my faith seriously, I did feel some measure of peace in the beginning. That lasted only as long as I could fool myself into thinking there had to be a good reason why the God I kept trying to talk to refused to answer. Then, it started having quite the opposite effect.

Ex-Christians are a very real threat to believers. They are living proof that anyone can lose his/her faith. That includes people like Drich

(November 24, 2013 at 8:40 pm)Kitanetos Wrote:

(November 24, 2013 at 8:37 pm)FiniteImmortal Wrote: "inner piece"

How does one who displays a competent grasp of grammar misspell peace three times?

That is why I hate misspelling things so bad, because it derails discussions and proves posts to be wholly invalid because, after all, if they were intelligent they wouldn't misspell something so damn easy. But, you're right, that was very shitty of me. I type fast and spell checker didn't catch it, again, i appologze to all.

Doh! speled Appologise rong.

I was Christian, Pentecostal, and felt peace at one point or another. Not many points, but a few.

I left, because I realized it was peace based on ignorance.

This reminds me...

ok, I'm making a thread.

(November 24, 2013 at 5:15 pm)Drich Wrote: Just because someone makes it to the position of a 'preacher' in life what makes you think they had to ever truly had believe in what they teach?

lol
There's that filthy apologist.


No, for real though, this is the response I expected from you Dich. The one and ONLY way to get around this biblical lie of "peace that passeth all understanding" is to discredit those who claim they were true believers.

Unfortunately for you, its merely your word against theirs, and I'm inclined to believe the person who actually HAD the feelings rather than the person that has an agenda to defend a book of lies.

It's really your same old argument isn't it? "Well, he wasn't a TRUE CHRISTIAN ... because I say so."

Of course, it's problematic for you because it happens all the time.

(November 24, 2013 at 8:40 pm)Kitanetos Wrote:

(November 24, 2013 at 8:37 pm)FiniteImmortal Wrote: "inner piece"

How does one who displays a competent grasp of grammar misspell peace three times?

Look at his avatar...

Here, I'll help: