(July 23, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 4:28 pm)Zidneya Wrote: You guys are compared as fundamentalists? I'm sorry is just that all this is sound very oblivious, at least for me. I mean no one in Latin America call us atheist fundamentalists. That's why is a little hard for me to believe that.

I've heard theists call atheists fundamentalists, but what to you mean by 'you guys'?

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(July 23, 2014 at 4:24 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: ow you are making this subjective. Having encountered Muslims before they would not consider evidence as evidence only Islam is evidence. You are bound by reason like me and have no choice but to make reasonable decisions but not everybody is like this and most are the opposite.

Fundamentalism is only inherent upon the ideology or concept you adhere to, in this case atheism. You are an atheist because you question things. This is like saying you are not a fundamentalist skeptic.

I'm a bit tired of explaining my position so I'll quote wikipedia to make things clearer for you. This is why atheists are not fundamentalists:

Quote:Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to orthodox theological doctrines, usually understood as a reaction to Modernist theology.[1] The term was originally coined by its supporters to describe five specific classic theological beliefs of Christianity, and that developed into a Christian fundamentalist movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century.[2]

The term usually has a religious connotation indicating unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs,[3] but fundamentalism has come to be applied to a broad tendency among certain groups, mainly, although not exclusively, in religion. This tendency is most often characterized by a markedly strict literalism as applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions[4] [5] [6] [7] , which can lead to an emphasis on purity and the desire to return to a previous ideal from which it is believed that members have begun to stray. Rejection of diversity of opinion as applied to these established "fundamentals" and their accepted interpretation within the group is often the result of this tendency.[8]

Fundamentalism is sometimes used as a pejorative term, particularly when combined with other epithets (as in the phrase "right-wing fundamentalists").

Where does atheist fit in?

Well for starters you are using a very limited term of the word which does you absolutely no good and on top of this I am not being overtly serious and am making a semantical argument which is a fallacy 90% of the times.

(July 23, 2014 at 5:07 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Blackout Wrote: I've heard theists call atheists fundamentalists, but what to you mean by 'you guys'?

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I'm a bit tired of explaining my position so I'll quote wikipedia to make things clearer for you. This is why atheists are not fundamentalists:

Where does atheist fit in?

Well for starters you are using a very limited term of the word which does you absolutely no good and on top of this I am not being overtly serious and am making a semantical argument which is a fallacy 90% of the times.

I'm not talking about semantics here. I'm talking about the social use of the word 'fundamentalist' applied to atheist, putting semantics aside, as an adherence to a set of doctrines.

(July 23, 2014 at 5:09 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 5:07 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: Well for starters you are using a very limited term of the word which does you absolutely no good and on top of this I am not being overtly serious and am making a semantical argument which is a fallacy 90% of the times.

I'm not talking about semantics here. I'm talking about the social use of the word 'fundamentalist' applied to atheist, putting semantics aside, as an adherence to a set of doctrines.

No I am talking semantics, I am using the word Fundamentalist in a semantical manner. I am stating that Atheism is by default Fundamentalistic because there is only 1 abiding principle or universal factor amongst atheists and that is lack of belief in any gods. I am making a mockery of the word fundamentalist.

You seem to be taking this assertion to seriously actually. This is an old argument I used to make in regards to Atheism. If you are not a fundamentalist Atheist you aren't an atheist as there is only a singular fundamental requisite to be an atheist.

When is the last time you heard of a Theistic Atheist?

(July 23, 2014 at 5:42 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 5:09 pm)Blackout Wrote: I'm not talking about semantics here. I'm talking about the social use of the word 'fundamentalist' applied to atheist, putting semantics aside, as an adherence to a set of doctrines.

No I am talking semantics, I am using the word Fundamentalist in a semantical manner. I am stating that Atheism is by default Fundamentalistic because there is only 1 abiding principle or universal factor amongst atheists and that is lack of belief in any gods. I am making a mockery of the word fundamentalist.

You seem to be taking this assertion to seriously actually. This is an old argument I used to make in regards to Atheism. If you are not a fundamentalist Atheist you aren't an atheist as there is only a singular fundamental requisite to be an atheist.

When is the last time you heard of a Theistic Atheist?

Well atheists and theists are opposites regarding the same proposition. But hey I'll correct the said principle again, atheism may not be a lack of belief in gods, it can be the belief that no gods exist. I am an agnostic atheist generally, but I am a gnostic atheist to religions.

(July 23, 2014 at 6:02 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 5:42 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote: No I am talking semantics, I am using the word Fundamentalist in a semantical manner. I am stating that Atheism is by default Fundamentalistic because there is only 1 abiding principle or universal factor amongst atheists and that is lack of belief in any gods. I am making a mockery of the word fundamentalist.

You seem to be taking this assertion to seriously actually. This is an old argument I used to make in regards to Atheism. If you are not a fundamentalist Atheist you aren't an atheist as there is only a singular fundamental requisite to be an atheist.

When is the last time you heard of a Theistic Atheist?

Well atheists and theists are opposites regarding the same proposition. But hey I'll correct the said principle again, atheism may not be a lack of belief in gods, it can be the belief that no gods exist. I am an agnostic atheist generally, but I am a gnostic atheist to religions.

Atheism cannot be the belief in no gods becase you are using a positive to support a negative. It is like saying "I believe on the lack of belief that no gods exist". This is applying Occam's Razor to semantics. Let's call it Occam's Paper Cutter

(July 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Heh, I don't believe Blackout is a North American. Calling atheists fundamentalists is a trope that's all over the world that theists use when they want to throw tu quoque's around.

Not in my country. This is the first time I've heard the atheist are fundamentalists. And I just assumed he was an American since most members around here are. And I also assumed he was referring about a real life experience I didn't knew he was saying this in part because a video that he saw on the web.

(July 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Blackout Wrote: Why do people assume everybody is an american except south americans? I'm european. I just posted the thread because I hear theists on real life and on the internet calling atheists 'fundamentalists', and it annoys me very much.

I just thought of that since most members around here are Americans . And that whole American except south americans I don't get it because here in my country we call people by it's country we barely use the American term when we mention someone nationality.

(July 23, 2014 at 6:11 pm)Zidneya Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Heh, I don't believe Blackout is a North American. Calling atheists fundamentalists is a trope that's all over the world that theists use when they want to throw tu quoque's around.

Not in my country. This is the first time I've heard the atheist are fundamentalists. And I just assumed he was an American since most members around here are. And I also assumed he was referring about a real life experience I didn't knew he was saying this in part because a video that he saw on the web.

(July 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm)Blackout Wrote: Why do people assume everybody is an american except south americans? I'm european. I just posted the thread because I hear theists on real life and on the internet calling atheists 'fundamentalists', and it annoys me very much.

I just thought of that since most members around here are Americans . And that whole American except south americans I don't get it because here in my country we call people by it's country we barely use the American term when we mention someone nationality.

I've witnesses people in real life call atheists 'fundamentalists', comparing them with religious ones. They call this to people like Dawkins and Hitchens

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(July 23, 2014 at 6:10 pm)Rabb Allah Wrote:

(July 23, 2014 at 6:02 pm)Blackout Wrote: Well atheists and theists are opposites regarding the same proposition. But hey I'll correct the said principle again, atheism may not be a lack of belief in gods, it can be the belief that no gods exist. I am an agnostic atheist generally, but I am a gnostic atheist to religions.

Atheism cannot be the belief in no gods becase you are using a positive to support a negative. It is like saying "I believe on the lack of belief that no gods exist". This is applying Occam's Razor to semantics. Let's call it Occam's Paper Cutter

You have got to be kidding. There is agnostic atheism, merely a lack of believe in gods, and gnostic atheism, the belief that no gods exist. In other words, if I'm a gnostic atheist I will make a positive claim that no gods exist. It's different from me merely stating I do not believe or lack belief in gods. Gnostic atheism means an individual knows no gods exist, agnostic atheism means the person does not believe but does not claim to know that gods exist or not, they just think it's unlikely

There's lots of fundamental ufologists.
What do you call someone who feels the same way towards UFO's as an agnostic atheist feels about god.

(July 23, 2014 at 6:20 pm)Blackout Wrote: I've witnesses people in real life call atheists 'fundamentalists', comparing them with religious ones. They call this to people like Dawkins and Hitchens

What Hitchens and Dawkins are is New Atheism which is a form of Atheism specifically based upon the Freethought movement. This is a form of fundamental New Atheism not Atheism itself. Atheism has only one requisite as we all know.

Quote:You have got to be kidding. There is agnostic atheism, merely a lack of believe in gods, and gnostic atheism, the belief that no gods exist. In other words, if I'm a gnostic atheist I will make a positive claim that no gods exist. It's different from me merely stating I do not believe or lack belief in gods. Gnostic atheism means an individual knows no gods exist, agnostic atheism means the person does not believe but does not claim to know that gods exist or not, they just think it's unlikely

Agnostic atheism is a claim about knowledge because by default I am an agnostic atheist. Agnosticism proposes that the there is no evidence to proof or disprove god and it is not a belief. It is the absence of belief at a higher level than the average atheist since you are declaring bullshit to gnostic claims on both ends. Gnosticism Atheism implies that there is no way one can have knowledge about the opposing positions to make claims of absolute truth or certainty.

Gnostic atheism simply implies you possess knowledge that no gods exist, you believe no gods exist, that's as simple as it gets. I don't see the problem. I'm a gnostic atheist regarding ancient mythological gods and I'm very close to declare myself a gnostic atheist regarding the 3 most popular religions, christianity, islam and judaism. I can prove them wrong and point out the contradictory characteristics and inconsistencies in their religions/gods, that is enough for me to claim they are fake and possess no valuable content. As for the question 'is there a higher force?' I'll just answer I don't know since I can't disprove it, therefore I'm an agnostic.