(December 2, 2014 at 2:42 am)Godschild Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 2:18 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah GC has explicitly said before that God literally talks to him, he hears his voice.

How do you know it's God GC and not:

1) An imposter God tricking you into thinking it's the God you believe in

There is only one God, and the servant will always recognize his Masters calling.

Quote:2) The devil who killed God and has been impersonating him ever since

The devil has limited powers, he has no more than God will allow, read the Bible I get tired of repeating myself. God is all powerful, that's called omnipotent by the way.

Quote:3) Actual mental illness, for which you should seek help

I have no signs of mental health issues, I do not hear voices as you claim, which by the way requires substantiation on your part.

Quote:4) The programmers of the simulation we live in sending you messages, making you think it's from God

Now were getting somewhere, your delusional idea of a simulation about this world requires people thus negating a simulation of life.

Now you're plain lying, I never said I heard a voice, but I do hear from God, there are other ways of communicating with God, things you wouldn't understand even if you accepted them.

GC

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(December 2, 2014 at 2:32 am)Losty Wrote: It doesn't take a second party for torture to occur. I know that all too well. Also, you're just making empty assertions about things which you have absolutely no evidence for so yea...no one really cares what you think. We only care about what you can prove to be true.

Sane people do not torture themselves. The sane would never pick an eternity in hell. What empty assertions, oh, you mean the Bible, well sorry but that's were I get the information and that information doesn't require you to believe it, to be true, one of the great truths of humanity.

GC

1. What evidence do you have of god actually existing that predates the bible. And were you there did you see him. What does god look like what does he sound like where can i find god.
2. The devil was an angle he was never evil from the get go until he was gifted with free will along with some other angles GC.
3. the feeling of god or supreme being can be easily done with magnetism.
4. You are crazy if you hear from a god or your subconscious is just fucking with you and chances are its your subconscious being an asshole.
5. Some sane people love to get hurt GC its a pleasure thing others do it like some really crazy Christians put themselves getting hurt like jesus did walking with the cross on his back and getting whipped but... that's fucking stupid. getting hurt over a guy that never existed pfft.

Theists never answer this, but I'll throw it out once more for fun.

A man kills your family. He says God talked to him and told him to do it. Is he justified? Or is he crazy?

Here's a goddess statue from Europe that dates around 22,000 to 28,000 years old, and far predates the bible and the torah.



Does this make her Yahweh's mother?

(December 2, 2014 at 5:01 pm)Beccs Wrote: Here's a goddess statue from Europe that dates around 22,000 to 28,000 years old, and far predates the bible and the torah.



Does this make her Yahweh's mother?

Venus from Willendorf. Lower Austria. There'sc still a museum where she was found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf

(December 2, 2014 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Theists never answer this, but I'll throw it out once more for fun.

A man kills your family. He says God talked to him and told him to do it. Is he justified? Or is he crazy?

I've not seen this posted before but, I'll answer it. God does not tempt nor tell people to sin, so the guy is crazy. Satan is called the tempter in the NT and also the father of lies.
James 1:13-14 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I'm being tempted by God," for God can not be tempted with evil and He himself tempts no one. 14) But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
I know some may not like this because it lays the responsibility on them. So the murderer is guilty because he fell to his own desires.
Now you have an answer, why other Christians couldn't answer this I do not understand.

GC

(December 2, 2014 at 7:36 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Theists never answer this, but I'll throw it out once more for fun.

A man kills your family. He says God talked to him and told him to do it. Is he justified? Or is he crazy?

I've not seen this posted before but, I'll answer it. God does not tempt nor tell people to sin, so the guy is crazy. Satan is called the tempter in the NT and also the father of lies.
James 1:13-14 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I'm being tempted by God," for God can not be tempted with evil and He himself tempts no one. 14) But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
I know some may not like this because it lays the responsibility on them. So the murderer is guilty because he fell to his own desires.
Now you have an answer, why other Christians couldn't answer this I do not understand.

GC

I remember a story about a guy named Abraham... which was asked to kill someone... could you freshen my memory?

(December 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 7:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've not seen this posted before but, I'll answer it. God does not tempt nor tell people to sin, so the guy is crazy. Satan is called the tempter in the NT and also the father of lies.
James 1:13-14 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I'm being tempted by God," for God can not be tempted with evil and He himself tempts no one. 14) But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
I know some may not like this because it lays the responsibility on them. So the murderer is guilty because he fell to his own desires.
Now you have an answer, why other Christians couldn't answer this I do not understand.

GC

I remember a story about a guy named Abraham... which was asked to kill someone... could you freshen my memory?

and boy was his son pissed off i would have been like fuck you god for telling my dad to do that.

(December 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 7:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've not seen this posted before but, I'll answer it. God does not tempt nor tell people to sin, so the guy is crazy. Satan is called the tempter in the NT and also the father of lies.
James 1:13-14 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I'm being tempted by God," for God can not be tempted with evil and He himself tempts no one. 14) But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
I know some may not like this because it lays the responsibility on them. So the murderer is guilty because he fell to his own desires.
Now you have an answer, why other Christians couldn't answer this I do not understand.

GC

I remember a story about a guy named Abraham... which was asked to kill someone... could you freshen my memory?

But they LOVE to emphasise that in the end an angel stopped the sacrifice.

Not "god", an angel.

Yeah, there was no sacrifice in the end. Though the kid must have been royally fucked up emotionally.

No more than Job, I'm sure.

Yahweh doesn't tempt. He tests. danged if I know what the difference is, though.

(December 2, 2014 at 3:01 am)robvalue Wrote: (Edited to be more polite, I was being a bit arrogant in my language)

Ok GC well I looked up what you actually said, and you claimed god speaks to you, and were asked if there was more than one voice in your head, and you said you only need one. That's where I was coming from.

I see why you thought that, I think it was a response to dyresand and he doesn't seem to want to debate a point so I made it sweet and short.

Quote:But let's just say God is communicating with you and that you were talking metaphorically. Apologies if I misread your meaning.

Accepted and thank you, it was metaphorically, I've never heard a literal voice from God, most of His communication comes through scripture.

Quote:You seem to think it is impossible you can be tricked. You are infallible?

No that's not the case, I'm as fallible as anyone else and probably more than most. Many here think that, I believe it's because I will not change my mind when it comes to what I believe about God, I know God is real because He has proven to me He does exist and I will not give up what I know is fact.

Quote:I didn't mean to claim we are in a simulation, my point was how you could tell the difference if we were. I agree I stated it too literally, it was meant to be an alternate hypothesis and could have been clearer.

I understood what you meant, guess it was my answer that made you think I believed differently. My answer was to show how I would know, sorry for the confusion.

Quote:I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just trying to get you to think about what this communication really is.

Believe me I've had many thoughts about how God communicates, I do consider the possibilities at times and others I never question, simply because I get an answer to a specific question. Once it was through a tragic situation, I listened to late. The situation was not because I didn't listen, I missed an opportunity because I wanted to do something my way and not God's, it has been a burden ever since.

Quote:I was being rather rude and confrontational, I'm sorry. I should have gone about this in a more polite manner.

I wasn't trying to accuse you of being mentally ill, but rather to make a point about how you can tell the difference. I phrased it rather badly. I got carried away while typing and should have been more tactful.

I have a form of mental illness myself, depression, and I tend to talk about it in the third person as "my depression". It does feel almost like a voice in my head. It hijacks my regular thoughts and puts irrational negative spin onto them, then tries to pass them off as healthy thoughts.

I do understand how one can get carried away while typing I do it to often myself and later regret doing so.
I'm sorry you have a mental illness and hope you are able to come to terms with it, it real seems to trouble you, stay strong and things can get better. I understand confrontational situations will come up, I've done it myself and it's not always a bad thing as long as we do not use it to degrade others.

GC

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(December 2, 2014 at 9:38 am)Nope Wrote:

(December 2, 2014 at 2:29 am)Godschild Wrote:

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I don't, why do you insist on claiming torture where it's not. Hell is a choice and since it's a choice God's not responsible for what happens to those who will be there. It takes a second party to torture someone. Yes God made the place and gave everyone a choice for their eternity, so the blame falls on the one making a choice where they want to spend eternity, or just flat out refusing to believe there's a God in control of the creation. Torture is forced on people, hell in no way is forced upon anyone, Jesus gave His life to give people a clear cut choice about their eternity, it's only the fault of those who choose not to believe. God made it simple to avoid hell and man tries to complicate things because he thinks more of his own self, than to serve his creator.

GC

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Usually when people argue in circles there is an emotional reason why that has little to do with what they are actually discussing. In your case, I think that your concept of god would take a hit if you accepted the biblical version of hell. The god that you have created in your mind is a good being. In real life, you are probably a decent person who views torture as evil; therefore, if your god is responsible for someone's torture, he would be evil. That line of reasoning upsets you so rather then say that god is evil or stop believing in him, you come up with a very confused way of passing the blame onto the future victims of hell.

I do not think I'm arguing in circles and not sure why you do. You're right I do not hold to hell being a place of fire and brimstone, I also will say I could be wrong. I do have a very different vision of hell and it does come from the scriptures, it's also IMO worse than a hell of fire and brimstone, why, because people there can't blame God for being there, they will realize it's because of choice they are there, their choice. I do not pass the blame onto those who find themselves in hell the scriptures teach that it is their own fault. Hell is one place I've questioned and not because I would give up my belief if I did not see hell differently, as I said the hell I see is worse, not because I'm sadistic, because scripture has shown me a different look. Like I said it may be exactly as the Bible describes, I'm open to both, neither is a deal breaker. It's taken me years to come to what I believe about hell, yet I want discount the literal description.

GC