I'd like to see how much church money collected actually goes to charity. I think the answer is probably not much. I've sat through more than one church budget meeting and I can tell you that most church money goes to maintaining the building, the pastor and other staff's salaries. Next is money payed to the denominational organization which may do some missionary and charity work beyond their administrative function. After that the charity often consists of youth programs mostly for the church's youth, and other services provided to church members. Next comes straight out missionary work. Finally bringing up the real is real charity, usually with strings attached.

I've belonged to a number of social/charitable or educational organizations. If we spent anything on ourselves even approaching the amount churches do we'd have lost our tax exempt status. If churches want to be tax exempt charitable organizations, they should either start behaving like tax exempt charitable organizations or create separate tax exempt organizations that really are charitable.

What do you do if the Church doesn't pay its property tax? Seize the property and sell it off? That sounds a lot like passing a law that effectively makes it difficult for a group of people to worship as they please.

If people don't pay their taxes their homes and properties are seized. Why should churches be different? At least, if that happens, the attendees still have the option of praying in their homes.

NO! Absolutely not.

Quote: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's

Never should have been!

(December 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: What do you do if the Church doesn't pay its property tax? Seize the property and sell it off? That sounds a lot like passing a law that effectively makes it difficult for a group of people to worship as they please.

More like making it difficult for them to set up a church on every other corner instead of consolidatiing into two or three churches at best per town.

Or they can just get out of our government and our schools, and respect the constitutional separation of church and state, and we'll give them back their tax exempt status.

(December 9, 2014 at 7:49 pm)Beccs Wrote: If people don't pay their taxes their homes and properties are seized. Why should churches be different? At least, if that happens, the attendees still have the option of praying in their homes.

When ever you tax something....you get less of it. Want to limit consumption of cigarettes.....put a tax on cigarettes. Want to limit the use of churches....tax churches. Our country was founded on a principle that the government wouldn't do anything unnecessary to limit the exercise of religion. Our country has been getting along just fine without the need of taxing churches for hundreds of years. If we continue to maintain tax exempt status for churches...our country will continue to get along just fine. Why should we violate the founding principles of this country just to satisfy the jealousy of a few atheist?

(December 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: What do you do if the Church doesn't pay its property tax? Seize the property and sell it off? That sounds a lot like passing a law that effectively makes it difficult for a group of people to worship as they please.

Yes. We'd do it to the Elk's club too. What would be the difference? Frankly, property taxes cover use of city roads etc. Like businesses and club (which is what they are), churches make considerable demands on the infrastructure surrounding them. That comes out of my tax dollars thank you very much.

And I might add that the mortgage company would foreclose if the mortgage is not paid church or no. I've been to some lovely restaurants, B&Bs, art cinemas that were once churches. Why should churches get a privilege from the government that they don't get from the financial industry?

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(December 9, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Heywood Wrote: Why should we violate the founding principles of this country just to satisfy the jealousy of a few atheist?

What founding principle would that be?

(December 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: What do you do if the Church doesn't pay its property tax? Seize the property and sell it off? That sounds a lot like passing a law that effectively makes it difficult for a group of people to worship as they please.

Will not god provide? Besides, a church, temple, synagogue or whatever, is not necessary nor required to pay tribute to the invisible sky-daddy. Put up a tent.

As you pray to a non-existent entity anyway, why not in a non-existent church, temple, synagogue or whatever?


Acts 20:8 - There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together.
Acts 28:30 - Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him...
Acts 16:13 - And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Acts 13:42-44 - So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

(December 9, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(December 9, 2014 at 7:49 pm)Beccs Wrote: If people don't pay their taxes their homes and properties are seized. Why should churches be different? At least, if that happens, the attendees still have the option of praying in their homes.

When ever you tax something....you get less of it. Want to limit consumption of cigarettes.....put a tax on cigarettes. Want to limit the use of churches....tax churches. Our country was founded on a principle that the government wouldn't do anything unnecessary to limit the exercise of religion. Our country has been getting along just fine without the need of taxing churches for hundreds of years. If we continue to maintain tax exempt status for churches...our country will continue to get along just fine. Why should we violate the founding principles of this country just to satisfy the jealousy of a few atheist?

What about the continuous attempts by church groups to infiltrate other aspects of American life: politics, education, laws?

Hundreds of church groups deliberately flouted the law by endorsing candidates from the pulpit, in direct violation of the law, and then had the nerve to flaunt it openly to the IRS in videos and emails.

But, the whole Christian privilege is so ingrained into the US psyche that politicians and the IRS refused to take action.

(December 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Heywood Wrote: What do you do if the Church doesn't pay its property tax? Seize the property and sell it off? That sounds a lot like passing a law that effectively makes it difficult for a group of people to worship as they please.

Precisely.

Why should I have to subsidize your fucking superstition?