(December 9, 2014 at 10:11 pm)Thor Wrote:

(December 9, 2014 at 10:00 pm)Heywood Wrote: Presumably the people attending a church pay taxes, and then they are forced to pay taxes again through their church.

And how would church goers be "forced to pay taxes again through their church"?

He's implying that a church would have to pass on a cost to parishioners (whether it be directly or indirectly) to cover the cost of the tax levied against their capital assets and/or service. The implication therefore is that people would be less likely to go to church and/or pay for its services, resulting a death spiral as the church in turn has less cash in which to do...whatever it does.

The assumptions included here are that a church would have to levy money from parishioners to cover the cost (not necessarily true - a lot of churches have vast wealth in reserves in the form of cash and capital - they could potentially absorb the costs there or indeed look to their operations and forecast a deduction from that - I'm sure some would notice a difference and some wouldn't. But that's the free market for you!) and/or that people would stop going to church and worshipping as a result of this additional cost (which is of course true, but it doesn't violate the 1st amendment as it doesn't stop people from being religious).

It's a business. Just because it includes a made-up element, that shouldn't give it special rights. Any company could make a claim that they are "helping people" in some way and so should be tax exempt.

I agree, any purely charitable section should be exempt. But you cannot make that claim of the whole thing, no way.

Would you want a firm of lawyers who believe in gnomes to get tax breaks? The gnomes make their clients happier.

It's worse than a business, it's a con. It's providing partially fictional services.

(December 10, 2014 at 5:41 am)Godschild Wrote:

(December 9, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Pablo Wrote: Once you spend (or give away) your money it is no longer yours. It has now become someone else's income, completely taxable.
If you go to 7-11 and buy a slurpee, does 7-11 get a tax exemption because you already paid taxes on that money when you earned it? No they pay taxes on it.
How do you not get that?

I get why business are taxed, they sale things for a profit, churches do not and I receive nothing material in return, I also have to pay more taxes for the right to purchase things from 7-11. 7-11 is not a religion and there is in this country a separation of church and state. Tax the churches and we become like all others and can get back into the schools, courts and all government. Things come with a price.

GC

Churches, especially mega churches do make a profit. They are selling their believes to you for your tithe and donations. Religion is their product.

If we taxed churches, smaller ones would probably be exempt because they don't make much profit after they pay for things like electricity and the cost of the building but the very large churches would either have to start doing physical charity like actually feeding the hungry or they would pay taxes.

(December 10, 2014 at 5:41 am)Godschild Wrote:

(December 9, 2014 at 11:31 pm)Pablo Wrote: Once you spend (or give away) your money it is no longer yours. It has now become someone else's income, completely taxable.
If you go to 7-11 and buy a slurpee, does 7-11 get a tax exemption because you already paid taxes on that money when you earned it? No they pay taxes on it.
How do you not get that?

I get why business are taxed, they sale things for a profit, churches do not and I receive nothing material in return, I also have to pay more taxes for the right to purchase things from 7-11. 7-11 is not a religion and there is in this country a separation of church and state. Tax the churches and we become like all others and can get back into the schools, courts and all government. Things come with a price.

GC

You receive the most important thing in the whole world, Godschild: salvation. You get to avoid separation from Yahweh and Jesus.

You people are already in the schools and such. The whole reason we're saying tax the churches is because the churches won't stay out of state affairs. You guys seem to want to be involved so much, so you should lose tax exemption.

(December 9, 2014 at 11:50 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Because it's a church. Duh! Or in other words special pleading.

It is not a special pleading because there is a valid reason for the exception.....that reason being the First Amendment.

The first amendment that the church has been ignoring by getting involved in education and politics? It is supposed to go both ways, you know.

(December 10, 2014 at 10:48 am)Chad32 Wrote: The first amendment that the church has been ignoring by getting involved in education and politics? It is supposed to go both ways, you know.

People don't lose their rights to educate others or engage in politics simply because they come together to worship.

I don't see what this has got to do with the first amendment. It's a business, pay tax. Am I missing something?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Tax doesn't prohibit anything. I mean, all the normal laws apply to a church, you can't start killing people because you're in there. It's not making a law respecting religion, it's expecting people who earn money to be under the same rules as anyone else.

(December 10, 2014 at 10:53 am)Heywood Wrote:

(December 10, 2014 at 10:48 am)Chad32 Wrote: The first amendment that the church has been ignoring by getting involved in education and politics? It is supposed to go both ways, you know.

People don't lose their rights to educate others or engage in politics simply because they come together to worship.

They do if they have a religious agenda they're pushing. That's the point of the first amendment. It's either all religions, or no religions involved in state matters, and the easier way is to just make them separate.

Yeah, I think demanding creationism be taught in science class is a bit more than coming together to worship.