RobValue- For your first statement the truth can always be verified. Also you have made many assertions with your second post so why do you vilify mine?

Chad32- I believe everyone is a slave to something. Whatever we worship (and we all worship) whether person, thing, or God that becomes our master. Also God didn't say that rapping and unbetrothed virgin was OK nor did he say taking revenge for a rapping was OK. The father of the woman/girl would be the ultimate say in whether the man could marry his daughter Ex 22:17. If you truly want to read and understand the bible then you have to do a number of thing and one is remember that although this book is written for all people it was written to as specific people group. God didn't make the culture they lived in he was instituting a different one where you couldn't rape a woman and face no penalty for it.

Chad you have never done something you knew was wrong but did it anyway? Even as a small child. I know I have.

Judy Lynn I believe I have not explained myself well enough and therefore caused confusion. Although while reading your rebuttals I would like to ask you how you think we as humans acquired a higher level of thinking than a cat/mouse.

He seemed to think it was ok if you go to a village of nonbelievers, and kill everyone but the virgins? Also having to shell out a bit of money, and not being able to divorce your rape victim, aren't much of a punishment, especially since it won't stop the guy from doing it again. He didn't go far enough in the right direction.

I've done things I was taught were wrong, and did them anyway.

I don't know how we acquired it. I'm not that deep of a thinker but I can tell you that it doesn't require a degree in rocket science to figure it out.

*btw; my daddy really was a rocket scientist.

Rekeisha: the truth can't always be verified. We don't know enough for that. We have in fact proved that the truth can't always be verified (it's a mathematics thing). But yes, we should aim to only believe things that can be verified. What you say about God cannot be verified, and neither can what I say. If you expect me to just accept what you say as fact, you must do the same for me. I understand that you believe wholeheartedly in the truth of what you are saying, but I have no way of verifying any of it so it's not something I too can believe. That's why stating it as a fact is an assertion. There is no evidence to back it up that anyone else can examine. Is there?

Chad32 God is merciful to the virgin who didn't get wiped out with her nation and He is just for wiping out the nation. I will admit it is not the easiest thing to read but the truth is we all deserve death because whether you like it or not God has the final say. Whether you believe it or not He is also a just God. We have all broken His law and done our own thing. The man who continues to rape will have to face judgment for his crimes. In the old testament if the rapist continued to rape he would have eventually been stoned if the Israelite people were truly following the law. (remember the law for the disobedient son) Then He would have to face the judgment seat of God and received eternal damnation. Everyone's wrong doing will be paid for one way or another. God in his mercy made a way to fix us by having Jesus die for out sins on the cross. So if you choose to follow Him He will change you from the inside out. If you do not wish His gift of salvation then you will receive the punishment you deserve.

Judi Lynn if you don't know where you acquired your sense of right and wrong how can you be sure you didn't get it from God?

Robvalue it can be verified by meeting Him, by studying His word. He says Seek and you will find Knock and the door will be opened. Then later in the same passage (Luke 11) He says if you ask Him he will give you the Holy spirit. This life of faith has less to do with what you can do and more about being available to Him. You must be humble but if you have a mindset that He doesn't exist then you can not be saved or know Him because you will never seek Him out. He is not what you think and the more I get to know Him the more I realize the He is not what I think He is either. God is not asking for blind belief He is asking you to act upon the information He has already presented. He has left behind His word in the Bible. His Spirit in His believer. His command for His believer to tell others and live out a life that glorifies Him. He has also shown it in science and history.

I would not say that being repeatedly raped by the guy who killed all her family and friends is a mercy. A quick death by the sword would have been better than living the rest of your life being violated by someone you saw kill your parents and siblings, then carry you off as a trophy.

So what if we broke his rules? I don't think someone gets to dictate what I do with my life just because they created me. otherwise I'd worship my parents. His laws can be objectively proven to be bad for society, therefore they are wrong. Even the best ideas in the bible are older than the bible or judaism.

Jesus being born and dying doesn't fix anything. God sending himself down to sacrifice himself to himself so we can be saved from him is a publicity stunt. It means nothing.

(March 31, 2015 at 6:17 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: I believe everyone is a slave to something. Whatever we worship (and we all worship) whether person, thing, or God that becomes our master. 

I love it when someone makes a declaration of faith so ridiculous that simply telling them their beliefs are wrong is sufficient argument. 

 I don't worship, I have no master.... so I guess you'll have to abandon that belief.  Agreed?

If you use a broad enough definition, you can label something anything. Like comparing being a bit obsessive about a hobby to being under the thumb of a guy that can beat you half to death if he feels like it.

(March 31, 2015 at 6:17 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: I would like to ask you how you think we as humans acquired a higher level of thinking than a cat/mouse.

Perhaps you might compare human brains with those of cats or mice.  If you doubt that the difference in degree of functioning (i.e., higher level cognition) is anatomical/physiological, perhaps you would volunteer for highly invasive brain surgery to demonstrate your point?

God is welcome to come say hi any time, Rekeisha. He should know where to find me and exactly how to convince me he is real. If he wants to play hide and seek my whole life, I got better things to do. Just using the brain he gave me as best I can. If he doesn't like it, he can blame himself for designing another idiot atheist.

If the bible is his attempts to communicate with me, he knew it wouldn't work so again, his fault. He really should be able to do better. If there's a communication problem, who is better equipped to address it? An omnipotent God, or some dumbass atheist in his pyjamas typing on an Internet forum about how the bible is rubbish?