(June 5, 2015 at 9:43 am)Cato Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 9:27 am)Drich Wrote: What hypocrisy?

Homosexuality is a sin, and they will be the first to say what their son did was also a sin. Both need forgiveness.

Simply vile. Conversation isn't required to demonstrate the moral bankruptcy of Christianity when all I have to do is point at this.

:Roflol:

I have lived with predjudiced/bigoted hate mongers all my life. Yes most of it has to do with race, but I am seeing a change in the winds. since pop culture will not tolerate bigoted hate with race or sexual orientation anymore, but it now allows the hate and selfrighteous superiority to live and thrive against everything Christian. I do not understand how you can justify your words here. Can you not see your own intolerance and projected self righteousness (what basically you are accusing me of) while you are tring to paint me into a category that you 'feel' it is safe to hate on.

 Otherwise, If you are not Christian then what does it matter to you how I classify homosexuality? Does it bother you that people who believe it is a sin that you eat pork would classify you the same way as I classify a homosexual? Would it bother you if they took it a step further than I would and actively shun you and anyone else who has ever known the taste of bacon or any other pork product?

 If intolerance was really your concern and you were not just looking to flex you own intolerance and hate, then you would compassionately see, that my views here are apart of the Christian culture I am no doubt apart of, and you would make an allowance for what I believe.

But you didn't, and that makes you and people like you a hypocrite of the worst kind.

Hey Drich, my questions weren't really trying to start an angry insult match, I'm genuinely looking for a straight, concise answer.

(June 5, 2015 at 10:02 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 10:01 am)Drich Wrote: Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only sin we can not be forgiven of.

All other sins can fall under the rules of atonement.

That is why it is important to identify Homosexuality as a sin, so the sinner can seek atonement rather than try and justify one's sin.

I understand.  Can you give a very summarized account of how one would seek atonement?

all one need do according to Paul in Romans 7 is to spiritually hate the sin you are in. To turn from it not to embrace it or try and justify it. To do your best to separate yourself from it. Attonement is not mastery over sin it is about hating the sin we are slaves to. It is about the struggle against sin, and resisting it.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Even Paul had sins he could not shake and he tells us about them in the passage above. If the Apstole Paul could not keep from sinning then what hope do we have? bottom line is we will sin, everyday for the rest of our lives. The difference between those who will find atonement for those sins and those who will not... The saved Hate their sin will as paul puts it in Romans 8 "Their minds are governed by the flesh and set on what the flesh desires."

I'm not saying their can't be any gay people (till the day they died) in Heaven. I am saying is their will not be ANYONE in Heaven who Justifies their sins rather than repent/In their minds/hearts of it.

---

(June 5, 2015 at 10:31 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Hey Drich, my questions weren't really trying to start an angry insult match, I'm genuinely looking for a straight, concise answer.

That is why I quote each post I am addressing. I can compartmentalize my responses and just deal with what is quoted just in that post.
 What was said to Cato was meant just for him, and what he said.

(June 5, 2015 at 10:47 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 10:02 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I understand.  Can you give a very summarized account of how one would seek atonement?

all one need do according to Paul in Romans 7 is to spiritually hate the sin you are in. To turn from it not to embrace it or try and justify it. To do your best to separate yourself from it. Attonement is not mastery over sin it is about hating the sin we are slaves to. It is about the struggle against sin, and resisting it.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Even Paul had sins he could not shake and he tells us about them in the passage above. If the Apstole Paul could not keep from sinning then what hope do we have? bottom line is we will sin, everyday for the rest of our lives. The difference between those who will find atonement for those sins and those who will not... The saved Hate their sin will as paul puts it in Romans 8 "Their minds are governed by the flesh and set on what the flesh desires."

I'm not saying their can't be any gay people (till the day they died) in Heaven. I am saying is their will not be ANYONE in Heaven who Justifies their sins rather than repent/In their minds/hearts of it.

Could've done without the block bible quote and just had your input, but thanks that helps illuminate things. Is there any sort of time restrictions on this atonement? Or can someone at the very end of their life attone for actions they've taken throughout their entire life?

(June 5, 2015 at 10:30 am)Drich Wrote: I have lived with predjudiced/bigoted hate mongers all my life. Yes most of it has to do with race, but I am seeing a change in the winds. since pop culture will not tolerate bigoted hate with race or sexual orientation anymore, but it now allows the hate and selfrighteous superiority to live and thrive against everything Christian. I do not understand how you can justify your words here. Can you not see your own intolerance and projected self righteousness (what basically you are accusing me of) while you are tring to paint me into a category that you 'feel' it is safe to hate on.

 Otherwise, If you are not Christian then what does it matter to you how I classify homosexuality? Does it bother you that people who believe it is a sin that you eat pork would classify you the same way as I classify a homosexual? Would it bother you if they took it a step further than I would and actively shun you and anyone else who has ever known the taste of bacon or any other pork product?

 If intolerance was really your concern and you were not just looking to flex you own intolerance and hate, then you would compassionately see, that my views here are apart of the Christian culture I am no doubt apart of, and you would make an allowance for what I believe.

But you didn't, and that makes you and people like you a hypocrite of the worst kind.

Having experienced intolerant bigotry is not justification for your own exercise of the same. This juvenile reasoning is likely why you mistake my reply as criticism of your intolerance, which you then try to justify with a lame tu quoque "intolerance of intolerance" argument. Intolerance in and of itself is not what is wrong. I'm intolerant of child molesters, psychics, and pretty much anything where someone victimizes another with intent.

It's your attempt to pass off your bigotry as morality or 'just following the rules' that disgusts me. Bigotry is intolerance for others for superficial reasons. Sometimes it's skin color. Other times it's based on place of origin. All are typically characteristics of someone that is beyond their control. Yours is based on accepting without consideration the assertion of some ancient ignorant fuckwit. It's inexcusable, particularly in the face of everything that we have come to understand since.

(June 5, 2015 at 10:01 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 9:52 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Drich, question.  I understand your view of homosexuality as a sin that needs to be forgiven.  My question is: is there any sin or series of sins committed over one's life that cannot be forgiven, thus the former sinner ends up in heaven?

Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only sin we can not be forgiven of.

Fuck the Holy Spirit. Is that good enough or do I need to blaspheme that cocksucker more?

(June 5, 2015 at 10:04 am)Drich Wrote: You seem to support whoopee in her pointing out the duggars hypocrisy. I asked a question when I said I did not see any hypocrisy. This is your thread. can you demonstrate or at least identify said hypocrisy?

I would venture that their hypocrisy comes from holding themselves as Christian exemplars -- morally sound, upright folks -- and then circling the wagons to defend the molester in their midst.

Take heart in the fact that it isn't just Protestants who practice that particular brand of hypocrisy.

(June 5, 2015 at 10:09 am)Exian Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 10:01 am)Drich Wrote: Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only sin we can not be forgiven of.

All other sins can fall under the rules of atonement.

That is why it is important to identify Homosexuality as a sin, so the sinner can seek atonement rather than try and justify one's sin.

Oops

http://atheistforums.org/thread-30063.ht...emy+thread

So.. the purpose of that thread seem to be that you all don't seem to understand what blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is...
uh-oh..

Sadly, we don't have time to ask every theist ever for their interpretation.

(June 5, 2015 at 12:19 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 5, 2015 at 10:09 am)Exian Wrote: Oops

http://atheistforums.org/thread-30063.ht...emy+thread

So.. the purpose of that thread seem to be that you all don't seem to understand what blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is...
uh-oh..

We don't give a fuck about the holy spirit if you are not going to participate in the thread please by all means do not derail it. 
Stick to the discussing what is originally posted.