Whoopi speaks out against the duggar family

[SteelCurtain]

To play devil's advocate here, while he is certainly a molester, can you blame parents from protecting their son? If my son had molested his sisters at 14, I would be looking to protect the victims first and foremost, but I would also do everything I could to help my son. I don't think juvy or prison would have helped Josh Duggar, and even if it would, I would do everything I could to keep him out of there. He would still be my flesh and blood. And I would be a hypocrite. But I would own it.

That being said, the way in which they accomplished the above is where the hypocrisy lies. They did not protect the victims. Men are obviously more important, as the ATI cretin teaches them. So those girls are an afterthought. Josh "confessed" to his dad not once, but three times over a one year period before any action was taken. Both before and after the first and second confessions, Josh was still molesting his sisters and the other girl.

Jim Bob lying about the city police chief taking a bribe is another instance of hypocrisy. Him repeatedly saying the records were "illegally released" is an outright lie and he knows it. The records were all obtained through legal FOIA requests. Him saying they weren't given a heads up about the documents being released is another lie. The local PD sent them a notice saying that Josh's records were being released via FOIA.

The fact that they specifically reached out to Cpl. Hutchins, who Jim Bob knew personally. They knew Hutchins wouldn't go anywhere with it, and it turned out Hutchins was later convicted on his second offense of trafficking child porn and is serving a 56 year sentence. Wonder why they went to him? Because they knew that Hutchins would give a "stern talking to" Josh.

The fact that they called a Christian work camp for troubled youth "treatment" is another blatant fabrication.

[Aroura]

Hey, the old "tolerate my intolerance or else you are being intolerant" bit. Gee, never heard that one before.

Most of us are perfectly tolerant of Christians, just as long as they aren't running around preaching their bigotry, or actively seeking to take away the rights of others, or turn their bigotry into law.

[Drich]

all one need do according to Paul in Romans 7 is to spiritually hate the sin you are in. To turn from it not to embrace it or try and justify it. To do your best to separate yourself from it. Attonement is not mastery over sin it is about hating the sin we are slaves to. It is about the struggle against sin, and resisting it.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Even Paul had sins he could not shake and he tells us about them in the passage above. If the Apstole Paul could not keep from sinning then what hope do we have? bottom line is we will sin, everyday for the rest of our lives. The difference between those who will find atonement for those sins and those who will not... The saved Hate their sin will as paul puts it in Romans 8 "Their minds are governed by the flesh and set on what the flesh desires."

I'm not saying their can't be any gay people (till the day they died) in Heaven. I am saying is their will not be ANYONE in Heaven who Justifies their sins rather than repent/In their minds/hearts of it.

Could've done without the block bible quote and just had your input, but thanks that helps illuminate things.  Is there any sort of time restrictions on this atonement?  Or can someone at the very end of their life attone for actions they've taken throughout their entire life?

I am not saying it is impossible as there is a Singular example of one in the bible, I do however think that they are the exception and not the rule. Unless you think God is a fool and bound by loop hole theology.

Every example of our final judgement (and What I experienced) says that our heart/intentions is what is really on final judgement not just our actions.

If you think you can fool or loop hole out with an all knowing God, then Goodluck.

For me.. Once you hear what is really expected of you and you turn your nose up at it, then that would be it for you.. But, again I'm not the one who is doing the final judging either.

[Drich]

So.. the purpose of that thread seem to be that you all don't seem to understand what blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is...
uh-oh..

We don't give a fuck about the holy spirit if you are not going to participate in the thread please by all means do not derail it. 
Stick to the discussing what is originally posted. 

Aren't you supposed to be explain the duggars hypocrisy to me? Talking about not being on point IN YOUR OWN THREAD!

[SteelCurtain]

But, again I'm not the one who is doing the final judging either.

No one is! Yay!

[Pyrrho]

What hypocrisy?

Homosexuality is a sin, and they will be the first to say what their son did was also a sin. Both need forgiveness.

The hypocrisy is them putting on a show of being morally upright when they were not, and in expecting forgiveness when they have been unforgiving of others.

This has been more or less stated in post 17.

[Losty]

Drich, question.  I understand your view of homosexuality as a sin that needs to be forgiven.  My question is: is there any sin or series of sins committed over one's life that cannot be forgiven, thus the former sinner ends up in heaven?

Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only sin we can not be forgiven of.

All other sins can fall under the rules of atonement.

That is why it is important to identify Homosexuality as a sin, so the sinner can seek atonement rather than try and justify one's sin.

That's disgusting. If you think homosexuality is a sin then shut your face and keep being straight. Don't harass other people about it. I don't understand why religious people cannot have their beliefs and keep them to themselves. 


@OP- I answered no, but only because I don't know them or anything about them besides that one of their son's molested 1 or some of their daughters. I have no reason to be for or against them as a family. 

[rexbeccarox]

Four of their daughters... and they have known about it for over a decade... and, in effect, they did nothing to fix the situation... and no one has focused on the girls and what they are doing to help them. It's all about forgiving Josh, Josh is married now, Josh feels terrible, Josh Josh Josh. It's disgusting.

[Nope]

On their show, the Duggars explained once that if a scantily clad woman approaches that the girls are supposed to yell the word, NIKE so the boys will look down. Girls in that brand of Christianity are supposed to prevent boys from being tempted. They believe that having a sexual fantasy is the same thing as committing adultery on your future spouse.  Perhaps Joshua would have molested his sisters no matter what his upbringing but the repressive view on sex must have played  a part in how his sisters have reacted. 

The Duggars also have said that they teach their children. J.O.Y. That means put Jesus first, others next and then yourself. The girls would have been made to feel the assault was partially their fault and that they should put everyone above their own feelings.

I wish that a reporter would ask the family about their extreme views but they don't.  It seems like the media  wants to view the family as a quirky but well meaning group  and ignore the fact that the family's beliefs are very harmful.


Drich, you were upset that we called Mormon's Christians. Are you equally upset that people consider the Duggars to be Christian? The family follows the teachings of a man named, Bill Gothard

[Nope]

Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only sin we can not be forgiven of.

All other sins can fall under the rules of atonement.

That is why it is important to identify Homosexuality as a sin, so the sinner can seek atonement rather than try and justify one's sin.

That's disgusting. If you think homosexuality is a sin then shut your face and keep being straight. Don't harass other people about it. I don't understand why religious people cannot have their beliefs and keep them to themselves. 


@OP- I answered no, but only because I don't know them or anything about them besides that one of their son's molested 1 or some of their daughters. I have no reason to be for or against them as a family. 

This a thousand times over. Christians can believe that homosexuality is a sin and are free to deny their own sexual feelings if that is what they wish. They should not harass other people or make robocalls that claim that trans people will molest little kids in the bathroom. Religion only applies to the individual who is practicing that religion.