(June 17, 2015 at 10:16 am)Neimenovic Wrote:

(June 17, 2015 at 10:11 am)Drich Wrote: Let's go for the obvious answer: "The bible is not God."

The bible is a set of instructions, not a text book. It's truths are found in following said instructions, and producing what has been promised. not in philosophical debate on whether the instructions are viable or not. In this God uses the bible and it's perceived 'imperfections' to filter out those who can follow simple instruction given by him and those who can not.

Again that what this life is all about the separation of those who want to be with God and those who do not. Our lives are filled with tools like this to help that process out. So that when we face our final judgement we will know in our hearts that our judgement is right and just

How do you know that?

How do I know what? The bible is not God? Well one the book does not fit the description of God contained with in it's pages.

That the bible is a set of instrucions? Because it gives direction. How do I it is not a text book? Because it does not conform to the standard of a school text book.

How do I know The truth or proof of the bible is not found in philosphical debate but in the following the directions given? That's a simple one. I followed the instructions and found what was promised.That and all instructions are vetted by someone following them, and not by just debate.

How do I know this life is about making the choice of where to spend eternity? The bible says so. How do I know the bible is accurate there? Because again I followed the instructions in the Bible and Found God as Promised. The fact that one can use the bible to find God validates the rest of scripture.

How do I know that we will find our judgement just?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html

(June 18, 2015 at 10:05 am)TubbyTubby Wrote: Of course, god wanted his words mis-interpreted so much that what was originally intended to perfectly describe the Universe actually comes out as childish gibberish through the 'holy spirit' so as not to confuse and turn people off his book. Genius.

I wish you could see the Irony in that statement as I do. I have spent 20+ years studying scripture (almost everyday.) So 10/12 years ago when I started to answer questions people would ask i would give them answers much like a over educated d-bag atheist would give if you were to ask him about evolution. Then I quickly learned that the majority of the people I spoke with had no clue in what i was trying to say. So my next response was to try and educate them (bring them up to my level.) That obviously didn't work because they were not intrested in assimilating 8 years worth of study just to know why God lets bad things happen.

Then when researching something in the bible for someone I noticed how Jesus (God) taught people. In my mind I knew God knew everything, yet did not have the need to flaunt it. When he spoke he told stories that people could relate to, then even took the time to break those stories down to even simpler precepts so everyone could understand. So I tried this and low and behold it worked.. It worked very well. My Fathe is a teacher (Tech school) and he often remarks that he has to teach on a level that equal to the slowest kid in the room. When he does the 'smart' kids who think they already know everything tend to find out they did not even have the fundamentals down as well as they thought they did.

I find this true here. I often lead with the most simple answer, and build on it. When I do more of you do follow what it is I am saying. Often commenting on how you thought christianity worked verse what I am relaying the bible actually teaches.

Again this method is used by Christ Himself when He taught and even rebuked the Pharisees. Why? Because the 'wise' can always learn something new from the simple stories and explainations Christ used, but if He were to top shelf the conversation then no one except the 'elite' would be able to know God. If this were the plan He would have simply had the 'elite' be born unto his people, and let everyone else perish.

Quote:Makes so much more sense now that you've explained it like that.

good

Quote:So whilst he was uttering majestic words to describe his major projects like super clusters, galaxies, black holes, neutron stars, star formation, nuclear fusion and the like, the holy spirit simplified things for us by translating it all to " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ". Clever stuff.

If He did, who would he be speaking to? Are you suggesting that God should have embedded a message in the bible that only spoke to this generation in western soceity? why???

(June 18, 2015 at 11:02 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: What would make even more sense would be to have some stuff for the people of the time and at least a few bits describing complicated modern ideas, so we don't look at the book and go 'well it all looks like a bunch of bullshit.'

Of course the bible fits much better if we assume rather than being divinely inspired it was written by primitive people doing their best to understand the world around them.

But, again your approaching a set of turn by turn instructions, as if it were a matter of debate. One can not talk their way through a set of instructions to verify them unless they have already been where the instructions lead.

The 'proof' of the bible lies in the finding of God, not in stacking it against the terms we (this generation) came up with to describe the simple processes God describes in the bible.

(June 18, 2015 at 8:14 am)Drich Wrote: lets try this again...

(June 17, 2015 at 1:26 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: For about a second, and then, practically all atheists tear apart the bible limb from limb with such ease on this website.

I guess I'm supposed to post it again for you: Pro 30:5-6 5 Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

B bb buu bbuuttt, that part is not meant to be taken literally, because it doesn't agree with what I'm saying in this case. The bible is wrong and I'm right, I follow the bible, but in this case naaaaahhhh. Can't you see that all you ever do is dodge everyone's questions regarding the bible? Can't you just be honest about the bible already? You say that it never says that it is perfect, and in this verse, it does say that. So, are you going to lie again, or just make another horrible fucking excuse?

Here maybe you should try a different version, maybe then you'll have a better understanding of what the passage is actually trying too say:
ERV:
5 You can trust this: Every word that God speaks is true. God is a safe place for those who go to him. 6 So don’t try to change what God says. If you do, he will punish you and prove that you are a liar.

ESV

5
Every word of God proves true;
   he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

6
Do not add to his words,
   lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

The writer here is communication the literal words of God are what are being proved to be true, and warns against changing them.

Again, the NT is Spirit inspired, and ultimately the words of a man. Or if you prefer: 'God's words filtered through a man's understanding.'

No, here's what I'd prefer, you telling me why there are so many versions of god's word. Is it because of this type of dishonesty which you have demonstrated over and over again on this forum? There's something you don't like in this version of the bible, so you have to run to another version, and say this is the version I go by. Then, when someone else quotes something from the ESV, you run right back to the NIV to quote from there. There's something wrong there, you wouldn't get it, but everyone else on here, that's not a christian, would.

(June 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 11:02 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: What would make even more sense would be to have some stuff for the people of the time and at least a few bits describing complicated modern ideas, so we don't look at the book and go 'well it all looks like a bunch of bullshit.'

Of course the bible fits much better if we assume rather than being divinely inspired it was written by primitive people doing their best to understand the world around them.

But, again your approaching a set of turn by turn instructions, as if it were a matter of debate. One can not talk their way through a set of instructions to verify them unless they have already been where the instructions lead.

The 'proof' of the bible lies in the finding of God, not in stacking it against the terms we (this generation) came up with to describe the simple processes God describes in the bible.

Right, so it only makes sense if you already believe in the Christian God. Got it.

Atheists have superpowers!

They can read the words on the frickin page.

(June 18, 2015 at 11:37 am)Drich Wrote: How do I know what?

How do you know anything about god? How do you know the bible is the word of god?

(June 18, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Neimenovic Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 11:37 am)Drich Wrote: How do I know what?

How do you know anything about god? How do you know the bible is the word of god?

You already know the answer, Neimenovic: the internal witness of the Holy Spirit.  If renaming confirmation bias is good enough for a scumbag like WLC, it's certainly good enough for Drich.

(June 18, 2015 at 2:46 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: How do you know anything about god? How do you know the bible is the word of god?

You already know the answer, Neimenovic: the internal witness of the Holy Spirit.  If renaming confirmation bias is good enough for a scumbag like WLC, it's certainly good enough for Drich.

I live in the naive hope that one day, one of these theists will admit to making shit up....

you may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one....

Incurable optimist, I am. But I'm sure Dripsy will be pleased to disillusion me

(June 18, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: How do you know anything about god? How do you know the bible is the word of god?

You don't know what any person has experienced from God, but only what you have experienced. If someone tells you that he has experienced God's presence in his life, you have no grounds to say that he hasn't. Since God is supernatural, he doesn't have to rely on natural processes to communicate with us. I would think that the huge number of solid people who have believed in God and claimed to experience him in their lives should lead you to at least be open to the possibility.