(July 7, 2015 at 3:41 pm)robvalue Wrote: Well, there is a danger in continuing with one religion, and that is that it may be the wrong one. Unfortunately there's absolutely no way to tell which is right, if any, so not much to do there. Ultimately Pascal's Wager demonstrates there's a zero chance that anyone is right, given infinite possibilities. At least you admit you would probably be a Jew if born to Jews. How this doesn't bother people more though, I can't understand! ...

Yes, I don't understand that either, why people are not worried about picking the right one.  It bothered me when I was a Christian.  I wanted to make sure I got things right, as I did not want to go to hell (if there is such a place).  Almost all popular religions condemn the believers of other religions, and just going along with what one happens to be born into is not likely to get one the correct religion.

Also, the idea that you should not question things, which is very common among religions, made no sense to me.  Not, that is, for a true religion.  It makes perfect sense that false religions would have that as a rule, because otherwise you may discover that the false religion is false.  But you can never prove that a true religion is false, so there should be no problem with questioning and examining a religion that is true.

I do, however, disagree with your claim that "Unfortunately there's absolutely no way to tell which is right, if any, so not much to do there."  Any religion that is self-contradictory must be false.  Any religion that contradicts any fact that can be known must be false.  Any religion that contains incoherent gibberish cannot be true.  Start applying these ideas to particular religions, and you weed out quite a few very quickly.

Sure, there is that. But then it may be the case that whatever God wants you to believe in contradictory gibberish, even if it isn't actually possible it could all be correct. There's no accounting for taste.

It's pretty easy to demonstrate there is a zero chance any "religion" is correct. All you need do is add an extra possible criteria. Does the God want you to worship him 4 or 5 times a day? Get it wrong, and you lose. Now pick another, anything. Does he want you to pray for 20 seconds, 30 seconds? 50 seconds? Gotta pick the exact time (potentially) or you lose.

There are an infinite number of extra criteria you could pile on. There isn't enough time in this life to even examine them all, let alone pick them all right. Even if you got every single one right so far (and you can't know that you have) there's still infinitely more criteria to potentially satisfy. It's impossible. You have to make unfounded assumptions that the God will be "happy enough" with a certain range of actions/beliefs.

And all this is assuming there is just one God... You get the idea.

So your explanation is 'for some reason'? ._.

(July 7, 2015 at 4:37 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: So your explanation is 'for some reason'? ._.

My explanation for why God made it so that women can give birth and men can't, and why men can give sacraments and women can't? I think I said a lot more than just "for some reason." God thought it would be better this way. Why? That we do not know.

So it's 'I don't know why'.

Huh. Theists can talk about their gods all day, what those gods want, think or feel, but when they come across a problem, suddenly the god in question becomes all mysterious. Funny that.

(July 7, 2015 at 4:16 pm)robvalue Wrote: Sure, there is that. But then it may be the case that whatever God wants you to believe in contradictory gibberish, even if it isn't actually possible it could all be correct. There's no accounting for taste.

It's pretty easy to demonstrate there is a zero chance any "religion" is correct. All you need do is add an extra possible criteria. Does the God want you to worship him 4 or 5 times a day? Get it wrong, and you lose. Now pick another, anything. Does he want you to pray for 20 seconds, 30 seconds? 50 seconds? Gotta pick the exact time (potentially) or you lose.

There are an infinite number of extra criteria you could pile on. There isn't enough time in this life to even examine them all, let alone pick them all right. Even if you got every single one right so far (and you can't know that you have) there's still infinitely more criteria to potentially satisfy. It's impossible. You have to make unfounded assumptions that the God will be "happy enough" with a certain range of actions/beliefs.

And all this is assuming there is just one God... You get the idea.

The thing is, you can eliminate entire groups of religions all at once.  For example, the problem of evil shows that all religions that involve an omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly benevolent god are false, because such a god is incompatible with the world as we know it.  So an infinite number of possible religions are eliminated with that one argument.


Now, if there were a god that wanted you to believe in contradictory gibberish, that would be an evil being.  You would then be likely screwed no matter what.

Pyrrho, while I see where you're coming from and I kinda agree with you I can't help but notice people oversimplify the question of evil as it isn't as simple as "there's evil, therefore no god" - It needs a deeper philosophical debate answering questions like "what is evil?" and "is there free will?"

(July 7, 2015 at 4:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My explanation for why God made it so that women can give birth and men can't, and why men can give sacraments and women can't? I think I said a lot more than just "for some reason." God thought it would be better this way. Why? That we do not know.

The problem is that it's not what god thought. It's what theists in a men's world want you to think. The two main religions (Christianity and Islam) are sexist. In both religions women have no rights. If god loves all of his children, then why there are no women on important positions in the Vatican and there are only men? And why there are more men's monastaries than women's? As far as I can remember from what I've read about Jesus, he was married. So, where does the sexism in religion comes from? Why the head of the Vatican is always a man? Give it some thinking and you yourself will find the contradictions between what the Vatican is preaching and what reality is.

(July 7, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: So it's 'I don't know why'.

Huh. Theists can talk about their gods all day, what those gods want, think or feel, but when they come across a problem, suddenly the god in question becomes all mysterious. Funny that.

Why did God decide to make 2 genders instead of 3 or 4? Why did God decide dirt would be brown? Why did God decide trees can't walk? Why did God decide women would be the ones to carry life?

We don't claim to have all the answers to all the questions in life. We just believe we have the ones that really matter. :-)

(July 7, 2015 at 5:23 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(July 7, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: So it's 'I don't know why'.

Huh. Theists can talk about their gods all day, what those gods want, think or feel, but when they come across a problem, suddenly the god in question becomes all mysterious. Funny that.

Why did God decide to make 2 genders instead of 3 or 4? Why did God decide dirt would be brown? Why did God decide trees can't walk? Why did God decide women would be the ones to carry life?

We don't claim to have all the answers to all the questions in life. We just believe we have the ones that really matter. :-)

Ya, like why does god allow people to live in poverty, why does he does he let people get diseases, why does he let people starve to death, why does he allow the world to be in a constant state of war? I guess it's just the way he wanted, so we can just keep worshipping him and telling everyone how loving he is.