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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 3:58 am
When someone says they have a mate called Jim, and they want me to meet them, then I want to see Jim. I don't want a series of arguments as to why Jim must logically exist.
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:17 am
(September 21, 2015 at 3:58 am)robvalue Wrote: When someone says they have a mate called Jim, and they want me to meet them, then I want to see Jim. I don't want a series of arguments as to why Jim must logically exist.
What you said makes sense. There is a way to see him and God only veils himself from creation if there acts are for other then him, per my view and understanding. So if you really want to see him, I think you would. But when I say want, it has to be a real desire, a genuine love to see God.
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:25 am
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2015 at 6:27 am by robvalue.)
If you can see something that I can't, then there a good possibility it's not real. That's how we fundamentally determine what is real, we check if everyone can also see it.
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:27 am
(July 23, 2015 at 5:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: The premise is not everything needs a cause. The premise is everything that begins to exist needs a cause.
It's not only proven to be a valid argument, but a sound argument.
Presuppositional nonsense. The hidden agenda here is assuming god is axiomatic. If that were true, we would really need an argument for god existence, now would we?
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:32 am
(September 21, 2015 at 6:25 am)robvalue Wrote: If you can see something that I can't, then there a good possibility it's not real. That's how we fundamentally determine what is real, we check if everyone can also see it. I don't really care what other people can or cannot see. If God veils himself from them, I know he does so for a good reason. All I can do is follow whatever guidance I receive from Him.
It's as God says to Iblis (Satan) "it's upon you to not be arrogant in it"
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:38 am
It sounds like you're not too concerned with reality, then. I'd be very concerned if I saw things other people couldn't.
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:46 am
How will you be guided by the Guide/Leader of our time, then? People don't see him, but there has to be a Guide towards God that is aware of our states and can guide us through out the journey, and show us inwardly how to act in each stage by means of his light and power of God's Command.
If you say no I cannot be guided by a Leader and Guide that most of humanity is veiled from, then, you have given up on the journey before you even got started!
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:51 am
(September 20, 2015 at 1:55 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (September 20, 2015 at 1:29 am)Losty Wrote: I'm pretty sure that means the universe is god
Or Albert Einstein is.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattt?
 Dammit Rocket, did you just convert Losty to pantheism? 
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 6:59 am
(September 7, 2015 at 4:21 am)Irrational Wrote: (July 23, 2015 at 12:23 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The argument is about the universe though. The premise that the universe didn't begin to exist is shown to be wrong.
Says who?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gravity_theory
Forget the Big Bang theory. Looks like this might become the better one soon.
Fuck April Fool's and fuck NOVA for sponsoring that shit. 
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RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 21, 2015 at 7:21 am
Apologies for the "wall of me" right there. Enjoying this thread. Reminds me of an area where af has it all over tta, to wit the number of deep and reasoned thinkers. Good job, peeps.
Not that I'm really qualified to judge intelligent discourse.
(August 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm)Cephus Wrote: (August 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Heh, I'm writing a blog post about the huge, conspicuous leaps that arguments like the five ways use to get to god out of nowhere. I liken arguments like that to a tic or spasm: you hit the end of an argument that doesn't lead to god and then just go "and that there is god!"
As though an assertion like that means anything at all. As though you can just sweep all the specific doctrines and beliefs attached to christianity under the rug and pretend that a deistic cause is sufficient to demonstrate what you really believe.  I took on the Quinque Viae a long time ago and found it utterly laughable, I'm sure you're going to find the same thing because of all of the claims made, none of them lead to any specific gods, apologists just say "See! My God!" Yeah... not so much.
My comment is awaiting administrative approval - you theist you!
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