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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 5:17 pm
(December 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 2:20 pm)robvalue Wrote: If I can find a handful of Christians who make some dumb arguments, does that show Christianity is dumb and bankrupt?
Delicate seems unable or unwilling to understand what atheism is. Some have been here much longer though and also still don't know what it is.
Funny how it works the other way. People generalize about religion all the time.
Wrong. Your supposed good book tells us all we need to know about what a narcissistic asshole your god is. I mean, after all, his people wrote it and his words are in red in the NT. So, if we can come to the conclusion that god is a dick, just from reading a book, why can't everyone else?
No generalizations needed. It's right there in black and white and some red.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2015 at 5:22 pm by Cyberman.)
(December 25, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Delicate Wrote: That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just pointing out errors in beliefs.
That's fine, but then you make the category error of insisting that the basic atheist position is the belief that gods do not exist, despite being corrected multiple times by people who somehow think they know more about what they do and do not believe than you do. See, if the only way you can get your arguments to work is by having to misrepresent your opponents' position, it might not be their position that's the weak one.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 5:53 pm
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2015 at 5:55 pm by Simon Moon.)
(December 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 2:20 pm)robvalue Wrote: If I can find a handful of Christians who make some dumb arguments, does that show Christianity is dumb and bankrupt?
Delicate seems unable or unwilling to understand what atheism is. Some have been here much longer though and also still don't know what it is.
Funny how it works the other way. People generalize about religion all the time.
It is not up to us to define your beliefs, then argue against them.
It is up to you to define the god you believe in, then provide the evidence.
If the evidence is convincing, I will be compelled (by my skepticism and intellectual honesty) to accept your claim as being tentatively true.
Until (or more accurately, if) that time ever comes, I have no choice but to disbelieve that a god exists.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:01 pm
(December 25, 2015 at 5:19 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Delicate Wrote: That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just pointing out errors in beliefs.
That's fine, but then you make the category error of insisting that the basic atheist position is the belief that gods do not exist, despite being corrected multiple times by people who somehow think they know more about what they do and do not believe than you do. See, if the only way you can get your arguments to work is by having to mosrepresent your opponents' position, it might not be their position that's the weak one. I'm not denying anything people believe, per se. I accept that the position they stake out in public is "lack of evidence"
I'm just rejecting the undefended asserted redefinition of atheism and giving my reasons for it.
I suppose I'm also pointing out the hypocrisy of people who lack belief and yet claim God doesn't exist. This serves as evidence that what people believe, and what they SAY they believe might not be the same thing.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:02 pm
That can't come as a surprise to you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:12 pm
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2015 at 6:15 pm by Simon Moon.)
(December 25, 2015 at 6:01 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 5:19 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That's fine, but then you make the category error of insisting that the basic atheist position is the belief that gods do not exist, despite being corrected multiple times by people who somehow think they know more about what they do and do not believe than you do. See, if the only way you can get your arguments to work is by having to mosrepresent your opponents' position, it might not be their position that's the weak one. I'm not denying anything people believe, per se. I accept that the position they stake out in public is "lack of evidence"
I'm just rejecting the undefended asserted redefinition of atheism and giving my reasons for it.
I suppose I'm also pointing out the hypocrisy of people who lack belief and yet claim God doesn't exist. This serves as evidence that what people believe, and what they SAY they believe might not be the same thing.
Atheism, for the vast majority of atheists, is not an assertion. It is a response to a claim.
Theists claim that a god exists. Atheists simply are unconvinced by theist's arguments.
So, did you ever stop to consider you are arguing against a straw man of your own construction? Nah, you're way too intelligent to do that...
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:14 pm
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2015 at 6:29 pm by Nay_Sayer.)
(December 25, 2015 at 4:25 pm)Jenny A Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 4:14 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Much like the majority of delicate posts, It all hinges on his own personal definitions.
Accept that despite endless claims atheists have it wrong, Delicate rarely in ever explains what ishe correct.
That's the other 1/4th of the equation; Baseless claim X Personal Definitions ( Avoiding Explanations+ Creduility ) = I am right
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:19 pm
(December 25, 2015 at 6:01 pm)Delicate Wrote: I suppose I'm also pointing out the hypocrisy of people who lack belief and yet claim God doesn't exist.
There is no more hypocrisy in the holding those positions than there is in the inverse: viz. theists who have belief in gods and yet claim that only "God" exists. For my part, if the bible is an accurate portrayal of the "God" character, its actions and abilities, I can say with confidence that that particular god doesn't exist and I am quite happy so to do.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:27 pm
(December 25, 2015 at 5:02 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 5:01 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: He is not hear to provide evidence or even debate, he is only here to provoke.
He doesn't know why he's here. You grant him too much credit.
He knows why he is here, he just could not admit to himself why he is here and has to cloak his reasons from himself with an idiot's self righteous shroud.
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RE: "The New Atheists are back — and dumber than ever"
December 25, 2015 at 6:42 pm
(December 25, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 25, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Stimbo Wrote: That's why I try to find out what people believe in their own words, rather than putting them into their mouths.
That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm just pointing out errors in beliefs.
No, good logic and method works like this.
Prior data and established method= tested and falsified formula with control groups= hand observations over for independent peer review.
Not.
Prior traditions/naked assertions= when I cant debunk science I will try to cop opt it= my desired outcome. You stupidly think no other religion pulls this tactic, but they all do.
You are not pointing out errors, you are fishing for excuses because some slick salesman sold you what you already wanted to hear.
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