3 simple points to end the discussion with any atheist

[The Grand Nudger]

"I don't know stuff, therefore allah!"

[Brian37]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

3-Why do we have consciousness?

"JANE STOP THIS CRAZY THING!"

Atlass, -please, this is not a new or original argument nor is it solely made by Muslims.

No, there is no design in all this. We are not the products of a cosmic factory owner. We are the product of mere nature and processes.

But if you really want to go there, I will say the same thing I do when Christians use the design argument.

Cockroaches and bacteria are also living things. They also can carry very deadly diseases that can kill humans. They also outnumber humans and have been around longer than humans. Still want to claim "design"?

Humans share the same eating breathing tube and we can choke on our food and die. Whales and dolphins do not have that problem. And as far as whales, some species of whales still have residual bones left over from when they had legs. Whales started out in water, went to land for a while, then back to water.

A Giraffe has a nerve that starts at one ear, goes all the way down their neck, then all the way back up to the other ear. Seems a waste knowing the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

And are birth defects like Downs Syndrome by "design" too?

Life was not a product of a sky wizard, anymore than lightening is a product of Thor.

Atlass, what you are needlessly mentally doing to yourself trying to defend old mythology is you are confusing "pretty" in life as all there is to life.

I also see amazing things in life too. But there are also nasty things in life too. The only difference between the theist and the atheist is that we don't assign the good or bad in life to old mythology and fictional beings.

Creation mythology is far older than Islam, Christianity and Jewish traditions.

[Alan V]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

...

3-Why do we have consciousness?

1.  As an atheist, I am not embarrassed to discuss the "design" of the universe.  You are assuming God did it, which means you think the consciousness of a God must be behind apparent design.  But science already understands why this is not the case.  The apparent design of the universe was created by various forms of non-intelligent, material self-organization: stellar evolution, chemistry, abiogenesis, biological evolution, and so on.  We haven't nailed down all the details, but the details we do understand support strictly materialistic explanations for apparent design.

3.  Again, you are likely defining consciousness as some separate substance rather than as something which can be explained materially.  However, scientists already know that the mind is brain-dependent.  Consciousness is awareness filtered through a self-concept, and the self-concept is a symbolic construct.  The body, and specifically the brain, is what is conscious -- not some free-floating, spiritual self.  Assuming some spirit behind consciousness is reifying the self-concept.

The reason why you think both of these points are show-stoppers for atheists is because you define both "design" and "consciousness" differently than we do.  To you, the God-concept is embedded in your assumptions about both.  Atheists don't share your assumptions.

[Brian37]

This video of a mud skipper is a prime example of life changing and adapting through evolution. No magic sky wizard needed.

---

And another thing Atlass, and I include Jews and Christians too whom also argue "design".

What a wonderful home we have, planet earth. Full of hurricanes, wild fires, earthquakes, tornados, tsunamis, volcanos. Not to mention other deadly life, bacteria, poisonous snakes, alligators, jellyfish, sharks, black widow spiders. 

Tell me, if you have kids, would you build a house full of hazards for them to live in? Say a leaky roof, mold, cockroaches, nails sticking out of the floorboards, razor blades, broken glass on the floor? No? Ok, great, that would make you a sane parent for valuing a safe home.

But earth itself is not safe as a whole for the reasons stated above. Humans are limited in how we reduce possible harm but have the ability as well to create new technology to avoid such harm. 

But it makes absolutely no sense logically that if one claims a perfect being who is all powerful, claims to love us, to provide us with such a flawed home being our planet.

It makes much more sense to me that this is it, there is no magic too it, and human's would be better served to deal with reality work on problem solving in the real world, and skip the old mythology of antiquity.

[Pat Mustard]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

3-Why do we have consciousness?

1) No it is not, the design argument is embarrasing to abrahamic theists because it poses the question "what created god?" An honest atheist will simply reply "we do not know yet, I'd be happy if we found before I died". And let us not forget it is science, nit theology which has brought us so close to the answer if there is one.

2) does not compute. Rephrase in a way that is not gibberish please.

3) We have an organ called a brain. Consciousness is an emergent property of the complexities of that brain, allied with the complexities of human society.

[unfogged]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

There is nothing embarrassing about it because it is assuming your preferred conclusion. The universe looks about like what we'd expect from a few very simple facts about how things interact given a lot of time. A quick look a chaos theory will show numerous examples of apparent order arising spontaneously out of random events and there's simply no need to jump to a designer to explain what we see.

What's embarrassing is the special pleading that theists use when they invoke god as necessary due to the complexity they see but don't require anything to explain the god which they hold as even more complex. Even if we can't explain everything yet, or ever, "god" is a non-answer.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

Human life is limited by our biology but I see no evidence that it is timed. I see no literal cosmic clock. The sun does not "give time" but the rotation of the earth in conjunction with the sun gives us a useful way of marking time because even though it is not perfectly regular it is close enough for most practical purposes. I have no clue what odds you think are stacking up; this whole point is pretty much word salad.

3-Why do we have consciousness?

"Why" is the wrong question. You are assuming your preferred conclusion again. You would have to demonstrate first that we were intentionally given consciousness before we could begin to speculate on why. Begging the question does not an argument make.

[Mister Agenda]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

3-Why do we have consciousness?

You should stop frequenting the internet sites you get this crap from if you're going to actually fall for it.

[fromdownunder]

What a wonderful home we have, planet earth. Full of hurricanes, wild fires, earthquakes, tornados, tsunamis, volcanos. Not to mention other deadly life, bacteria, poisonous snakes, alligators, jellyfish, sharks, black widow spiders.

There is also this cute little thing - the Blue Ringed Octopus, about 2 mm across  which can be found in rock pools all over Australia at low tide.  Pick one up, pet it, and if you are alone when it bites you have about two minutes left to make your will. 

God certainly makes harmless little things which look pretty and are pretty lethal. Or did it evolve that way through purely natural events??



Norm

[robvalue]

Isn't it funny how this designer always turns out to be a character in the local religious book? What are the odds of that.

[The Grand Nudger]

Roundabouts 100%