God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

[Ryantology]

Actually I have, from the beginning. You will not accept it. Unless you are willing to accept the Authority God has to establish a standard, set a punishment, and offer redemption. you will refuse any answer given. Which is why I told you from the beginning that unless you could accept 'God did it,' as an answer the conversation is over.

It is impossible for us to accept the authority of God on two counts:

1: There is no proof of God's existence.
2: Even if we ignore #1, there is no proof that your version of God's Will is accurate. You tell us it is impossible to know God, yet you claim to know his will.

As far as we can tell, you're an arrogant charlatan with an agenda, or at the very least you are a mouthpiece for such people in your dealings with us.

The failure here is not us for lacking faith, but you for making claims no one can verify.

[The Grand Nudger]

B-b-but... Ryan..if you just ask no god to send you no proof I can assure you no proof will materialize....(so long as you ask no god in the right way)

Or, if you prefers Drich's version...

"-God exists!"
how do you know?
"because I asked him."

[Undeceived]

The failure here is not us for lacking faith, but you for making claims no one can verify.

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

[Zen Badger]

The failure here is not us for lacking faith, but you for making claims no one can verify.

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

But at least she will have evidence that I exist, which more than can be said for your god.

[Brian37]

The failure here is not us for lacking faith, but you for making claims no one can verify.

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

Not this shit again. "you cant see air but you know it exists".

Humans are biological creatures and their perceptions can be flawed. Our emotions can fool us and yes, we can get conned Those are universal facts of BIOLOGY AND EVOLUTION.

No magic to it, no, magical devil with a pitchfork re arranging the neurons in your brain to get you to do bad .

All you are saying is people can fool you. SO? That does not make any god real, not Allah, not Yahweh, Not Jesus, not Vishnu. It only means humans have flawed perceptions and thus other people can fool them.

What you are talking about is nothing more than natural human biology that causes us to see what we want to see not what is there. No magic and no god needed to understand the psychology of human beings that causes these missperceptions..

[genkaus]

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman?

Yes, there is. I can show her the physiological changes in my body - the increased levels of hormones and pheromones - which is evidence of my love. I can point to my actions which are based on the psychological motive of love. I can provide a compendium of testimonial data from my friends - all of whom would conclude 'love' from my behavior.

So, we have physical, measurable evidence, solid theoretical basis and peer review - all verifying my love for her.

You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know?

If she's smart - yes, she will.

Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

That she stick to the scientific process - ofcourse.

You think I want a girl who'll just believe me if I say I love her, irrespective of my actual actions? I'd rather not be one of those boyfriends you here about - those who make their girlfriends miserable but get them to stay just because they keep saying "but, I love you". I'd much rather have a girl who - everytime I say I love her - gives me a skeptical look and says "I'll be the judge of that".

[festive1]

The failure here is not us for lacking faith, but you for making claims no one can verify.

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

You show someone you love them by your actions. You listen to them, respect them, do things that would please them (ie. going to that chick flick for a date night), you support them through difficult times. If it is a good relationship, worthy of taking the leap into marriage, the other person should reciprocate by doing the same.
You can verify that someone loves you, sometimes your perceptions are wrong. That's part of being human. You can love someone without them loving you in return.
God's love, is another matter entirely. I've never seen, felt (emotionally speaking), touched, smelled, heard, or tasted god. My life experience shows me that there is no "great loving force" looking out for me.

[Kousbroek]

... her believing the unverifiable truth ....

I'm not too fond of religious people as it is but, when they start referring to love as an " unverifiable truth " they really give me the creeps ...

[Kirbmarc]

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

People have already answered to your question in excellent ways, but let me point out that there is a big flaw in your argument if you want to use it to justify your beliefs: you can physically meet a woman, but you can't physically meet your god.

I'll write another argument to you. It's still a flawed one, but it's less so than your comparison.

Imagine that you had several chat sessions with a woman on the internet. She finds you intelligent, compassionate and funny, and she claims she says she's fallen in love with you. Unluckily, you've never met this woman face to face. Would you believe her, even if you've never met her?

(Bear in mind that the example is still flawed, because you at least chatted with her, while you can't chat with your god).

[Ryantology]

You ask a woman out, date her, and propose marriage. She asks, "Do you love me?" You reply yes. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you."
Is there any possible way to prove your love to this woman? You can do nice things and say all the right words, but will she ever really know? Which is more important: her believing the unverifiable truth or her clinging to scientific process?

Here's my version of that, adjusted to the delusion of a theist:

A woman speaks out loud in an empty room because she is told you can hear her no matter where she is. She asks, "Do you love me?" You do not reply. She says, "Can you verify that for me? If you can't I won't marry you." You still don't reply. She gives up and goes away. Then, when she dies, you blame her for not being faithful to you and subject her to an eternity of torture and misery.