If the Exodus didn't happen, the Jews wouldn't put themselves under the Mosaic law

[Minimalist]

2 - If the 72 virigns are not real - why would a billions Islamic men put themselves under that rule?

Grapes. Are they going to be fucking pissed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/opinion/04krist.html

The Koran is beautifully written, but often obscure. One reason is that the Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and there's growing evidence that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.

For example, the Koran says martyrs going to heaven will get "hur," and the word was taken by early commentators to mean "virgins," hence those 72 consorts. But in Aramaic, hur meant "white" and was commonly used to mean "white grapes."

Some martyrs arriving in paradise may regard a bunch of grapes as a letdown. But the scholar who pioneered this pathbreaking research, using the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for security reasons, noted in an e-mail interview that grapes made more sense in context because the Koran compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes.

BTW, note that a scholar studying this horseshit feels compelled to use a pseudonym because otherwise the 'religion of peace' and all those 'moderates' would kill him.

[ThomM]

From an exchange...

Did tens of thousands of Israelites conspire to fabricate the history of the Exodus? If those events did not occur, and those recorded miracles were not experienced by tens of thousands of Israelites, why would they subject themselves to such a burdensome legal code and hard life?

The person in question doesn't seems interested in there being or not archeological evidence for the event.

Are there any examples of people in other religions doing something similar? I know he would reject such accounts but it would be nice to point it to him to show him why I reject the Bible account

I actually have a better answer

There has NEVER been a time when more than 10% of the population WAS jewish - and probably less - so in fact - MOST of the people of the world DID not believe it even at its height. That it might have been believed by largely a group of "uneducated" cave dwellers, goat herders, and fishermen - most of whom could not read or write - is hardly convincing proof of anything.

And since we KNOW now that there is NO archeological evidence that it happened - we know WHY really educated people today reject it as MYTH.

[Cyberman]

BTW, note that a scholar studying this horseshit feels compelled to use a pseudonym because otherwise the 'religion of peace' and all those 'moderates' would kill him.

Of course. Faith may or may not move mountains, but it definitely knocks the shit out of skyscrapers.

[Minimalist]

Aye.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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Not "if" it didn't happen. It did not happen. No "if". It is a myth, nothing more and out of a book of myth,

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But why would the Jews subject themselves to such a rigorous law if they knew it was a myth?

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Then counterclaim it.

Of course, I could just say it was all a mass delusion and call it a day.

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The Jews thought that if they had a bunch of laws regulating their behavior they wouldn't have to think for themselves. Modern day Americans are just like them. Every conceivable act known to man was, is, or will be illegal sometime somewhere in America. Anytime a new issue pops up people go into the Moses mode and want to pass a law to address it. The interesting thing is that Moses never followed the rules himself.

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2 - If the 72 virigns are not real - why would a billions Islamic men put themselves under that rule?

Grapes. Are they going to be fucking pissed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/opinion/04krist.html

The Koran is beautifully written, but often obscure. One reason is that the Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and there's growing evidence that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.

For example, the Koran says martyrs going to heaven will get "hur," and the word was taken by early commentators to mean "virgins," hence those 72 consorts. But in Aramaic, hur meant "white" and was commonly used to mean "white grapes."

Some martyrs arriving in paradise may regard a bunch of grapes as a letdown. But the scholar who pioneered this pathbreaking research, using the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for security reasons, noted in an e-mail interview that grapes made more sense in context because the Koran compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes.

BTW, note that a scholar studying this horseshit feels compelled to use a pseudonym because otherwise the 'religion of peace' and all those 'moderates' would kill him.

Wow! There's going some mighty pissed off guys when they find out that they're only going to get 72 white grapes. Allah had better hide out for the next billion years after that or they'll behead his butt.

[Minimalist]

That's the beauty of it, Wyrd. There is no fucking allah but the assholes will be dead and won't know any difference.

[xpastor]

From an exchange...

Did tens of thousands of Israelites conspire to fabricate the history of the Exodus? If those events did not occur, and those recorded miracles were not experienced by tens of thousands of Israelites, why would they subject themselves to such a burdensome legal code and hard life?

The person in question doesn't seems interested in there being or not archeological evidence for the event. ....

The answer is really simple enough, but it requires some knowledge of history, which could be gleaned from The Bible Unearthed, already mentioned by Minimalist.

Most of the OT was written between 700 and 500 BC, including the parts which purport to tell of the Exodus supposedly around 1400 BC. In the era when the OT was written the Jews were getting the shit kicked out of them by the Assyrians and the Babylonians. Jewish nationalists made up a religion which was totally monotheistic in contrast to the actual beliefs of the people who thought Yahweh had a wife. Furthermore, their newly minted religion was extremely difficult in order to prevent assimilation. For instance, circumcision and the weird dietary laws set them apart from other nations. It was in this era in the reign of Josiah that someone conveniently found a long-lost book of the law in the temple, namely Deuteronomy, a classic case of literary forgery.

[Minimalist]

Of course, there is no historical attestation of any "josiah" either. Finkelstein goes off the rails a bit there because he violates his own methodology.

The fact is that we have no indication of anything which we might remotely call "jewish" until the Persian Period beginning c 539 BC.

[Cyberman]

You'll be saying "God" doesn't exist next.

[dimaniac]

Most of the OT was written between 700 and 500 BC, including the parts which purport to tell of the Exodus supposedly around 1400 BC. In the era when the OT was written the Jews were getting the shit kicked out of them by the Assyrians and the Babylonians. Jewish nationalists made up a religion which was totally monotheistic in contrast to the actual beliefs of the people who thought Yahweh had a wife. Furthermore, their newly minted religion was extremely difficult in order to prevent assimilation. For instance, circumcision and the weird dietary laws set them apart from other nations. It was in this era in the reign of Josiah that someone conveniently found a long-lost book of the law in the temple, namely Deuteronomy, a classic case of literary forgery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

One cited example is that by taking every 50th letter of the Book of Genesis starting with the first taw, the Hebrew word "torah" is spelled out. The same happens in the Book of Exodus.