I need major help with my Christian Family

[robvalue]

Er, no. There is no evidence whatsoever of any of these "alternative" treatments having any effect at all beyond a placebo. Sorry.

(Anecdotes are not evidence.)

[JesusHChrist]

This shit just got real!

Or in this case, not.

[robvalue]

If anyone wants these things taken seriously, the people doing this "healing" need to agree to proper scientific test conditions.

No paranormal, psychic or supernatural anything has ever been demonstrated under test conditions.

[TubbyTubby]

I would like to see scientific research in this area to prove the difference between dark energies of occult/sorcery/magic and the light energies of positive prayers, plus the concentrated prayers of the people who do exorcisms and deliverance that other prayers can't do.

You'll be waiting a long time. You'll need evidence that supernatural powers exist before going on to find the difference between 'light' and 'dark'.

You could of course watch me slay some beasts in Dragon Age using various magical energies and I can explain the difference between fire and ice spells. That's about as real as it gets.

[DeadChannel]

What does light energy vs dark energy even mean? Good stuff vs bad stuff?

That's childish, story book stuff right there. It's an incomplete, contrived, made up mess. Sounds like a fucking M. Night Shyamalan flick.

[robvalue]

I'm happy for people to make unfalsifiable claims all day long, it's normal among spiritual/religious people. But when testable claims are made about reality, I'm going to bring the hammer down where appropriate and call bullshit.

It's how I roll.

---

Ooh, I made myself sound all sexy there! Yeah baby. Hammer it good. Maybe someone even mistook me for a real person. Yeah!

[coolfunkDJ]

To be honest, you're kind of a dick, saying that i have taken these people as my adopted parents, how does me being a different faith mean I dont love my parents, I love them more than anything in the world, and I dont need Jesus fucking Christ to show that love, they're amazing, and don't ever guilt trip me into thinking I dont love my parents, because you're wrong. But I don't need to believe everything my parents believe in to show my affection, go away "GC", this is why I find christianity wrong.

I was only trying to get you to see that your parents love you, through all they've done for you, I haven't asked you to change your mind about your non-belief, as far as I'm concerned that's something you'll need to do, but it will effect your relationship with your family sooner or later, that you can count on. I'm only trying to give you something to consider about your decision, it's your life, just be ready to live it.

im not changing, and I can see you have shitty parents, my friends are christian and they suddenly dont hate me because of my beliefs, so why would my parents?

[robvalue]

Right. Point out all the commandments from God they are not following. How many people do they stone to death for working on Sunday? Do they let women speak in church? Do they wear cloths of more than one fibre?

And make them watch this video, one of my favourites to use on ignorant christians. Kinda my catchphrase.

http://youtu.be/pkCJ8rb8Grw

Haha found this to go along with the above video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3S-d_H...ion_158108

[Mister Agenda]

What a breathtakingly dishonest and morally repugnant series of bullshittery.

Many here have stated choosing atheism has destroyed their relationship with their families, you know that has been stated here your dishonest says everything about you.

GC

Well if you're not a bald-faced liar, it should not be challenging at all to find a quote of someone here saying, essentially, "My choosing atheism destroyed my relationship with my family."

You accusing others of dishonesty is rich. Do you have an honest bone in your body? You know how many times we've told you people don't choose what to believe, they believe what they are convinced is true, yet here you are claiming that MANY here have stated CHOOSING atheism destroyed their relationship with their families.

What you have ACTUALLY seen many people here state is that their relationship with their family was destroyed because their family could not accept them being an atheist

---

Just because you want to deflect by saying there's no choice doesn't make it true, you chose to be an atheist, period. Childishness is not stepping to the plate and accepting your responsibilities.

GC

Another bit of childishness is not being able to (or is it pretendig not to?) comprehend how human minds work, despite allegedly having one.

---

I never said anything like what you are suggesting, I actually left the decision to the boy, unlike others here.

In what possible way could any of us not have left the choice to him? Are you so far gone to just be against anything we do or say that now you're pretending not to understand that advice intrinsically leaves the final decision to the person being advised? That the caveat 'you don't have to take my advice' is so obvious that it need not be said explicitly, especially on an internet post that no one has to read, let alone obey?

I was pointing out that he needed to work it out with the ones who have always been there for him.

No kidding, Captain Obvious.

On the other hand you only care he accepts atheism at any cost, his well being is not even a consideration for you.

He's already an atheist, brainiac, and absolutely no one here tried to talk him into that or told him he has to stay an atheist. It's remarks like this that make me wonder if you're even capable of honesty. We offered him options while you ranted about who wiped his bottom. We were worried by what might happen to him if he made a big deal about being an atheist, and you give not a single shit about that. People who wiped their kids asses have thrown them out of the house while they were still under age for being an atheist, and while it's rare even among fundamentalists, it's 100% fundamentalists that have done it.

I was only trying to help him to see the ones who have been with him for the 14 years of his life, love him, again unlike you.

GC

He knows they love him, you moron. Unlike you. That's not even the issue.

---

I was only trying to get you to see that your parents love you, through all they've done for you,

And because you've let your fundamentalism destroy your normal human sensibilities, you thought he needed you to tell him that.

I haven't asked you to change your mind about your non-belief, as far as I'm concerned that's something you'll need to do, but it will effect your relationship with your family sooner or later, that you can count on.

Maybe his parents have more compassion and empathy and love for their son than you give them credit for. Some people manage to hold on to their basic humanity while still being fundamentalists, What happened to you and Drich didn't necessarily happen to them.

There's no dishonesty there, I care about families, I've seen to many destroyed over disbelief, take what I say as you want, it will never change the truth nor my determination to try and help families.

Nothing will ever change anything about you, GC, that's your problem. You've left yourself no room to learn anything if it might be at odds with what you already know, no room to grow because you think you're a perfect little bonsai tree.

What you've seen are families destroyed by their inability to love someone enough to accept them for who they are instead of who they want them to be. And because you can't understant that is the real problem, you are incapable of offering advice in such a situation that is actually helpful. And more to the point, you're incapable of understanding that fact. If this young man was wavering in his belief, no one here has done more to ensure him becoming an atheist than you. But you don't actually have that on your conscience because he was an atheist when he got her.

I believe you to be among the best recruiting tools for atheism here though, for the undecided lurkers. Undecided doubting Christian lurkers, I advise you to expose yourself to normal, mainstream Protestant denominations like Episcopelians or Lutherans before you leave your religion based on the impression of Christianity that GC gives. I don't want any wavering fundamentalist Christians convinced of atheism because of a skewed impression that nutty fundamentalism is all there is to the religion.

[Mister Agenda]

If you can understand that your family believes in this wonderful Justice coming to save everyone, then that is like how even secular humanists seek Justice and Peace universally for all people. The biggest step is forgiveness, and where people struggle to forgive differences, that's where your family 'fears' you aren't on the same page with them.

I like your sentiment, but his parents are Pentecostal and almost certainly think you're going to hell. What secular humanists think is justice and what they think is justice are very different. They think justice is anyone who doesn't agree with the tenets of their sect writhing in torment for eternity. Pentecostals are likely to worry if one of their kids want to go to a different Pentecostal church than theirs, out of fear that their teaching might not be as perfect as the church to which the rest of the family is going.

---

You have rad things into what I've said, you've become defensive for someone you do not even know

You've just described of what you are the king.

I understand what you are saying.

That'll be the day.

So I'll say this, you hate the idea of the God of creation, which basically is the same thing as hating God.

And in the same breath you demonstrate that you udon't understand what he is saying. There are versions of God that are perfectly admirable. They are usually not compatible with theodicy, but they can be perfectly compatible a God of creation.

You happen to be peddling a version of God that makes him seem like a petty and heartless sadistic tyrant and more than a little creepy/overly interested in human genitals. If that God exists, he wouldn't be worth worshiping, but I would do it anyway if I really thought he was real because I have a good grasp of how bad frying alive is, even for a few seconds, and have no doubt the version of God you subscribe to would be able to keep that pain fresh for eternity. We don't hate God, we hate YOUR idea of God. Sadly, it is an all too common one. I strongly suspect that if it turns out there really is a God, it will be far more upset with the people portraying it as a monster than with the people pointing out that the portrayal is monstrous.

Try to wrap your head around the concept that your notion of 'how God really is' isn't the only one, even if you think it is the only correct one.

I came here for neither, I'm here to learn and learn I have, so I'm accomplishing what I came here for.

What's one thing you've learned here? I bet it's not anything about atheism or atheists that's actually true.

Wow, really! I've had discussions with people here that gave up their families for their atheism, sounds and sounded then like a bad deal, sure families have problems, mostly because they do not use the love they have at their disposal, what I mean by disposal is to give that love to other family members.

This is what makes it hard to believe you're actually capable of learning anything true with such a closed mind. No one gave up their family for atheism. Their family gave them up because they were atheists. The only choices an atheist has about their atheism is whether to be closeted or out. If they feel they have to remain closeted, it says more about the hostile environment that has been created for dissenters than it does about them. If they come out and are rejected by their family, that says more about their family than them.

My family have our problems, but one thing you can bet on, we will never let those things separate us because we love each other, ours is a love described in scripture. A love that will put self behind and others first to preserve the family and the love.

GC

When I try to picture a loving person, you would not make the top 4 billion. Are you some kind of Hyde and Jekyll who is a complete asshole online but turns into a decent human being face-to-face?

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Its not even..... when it comes down too it and this is the reality of it all.
Atheist/Secular humanist homes have better families and moral values than any theistic household would ever have ever period. The fact is if you look at the data secular/atheist families tend to be a happier family have stronger family ties and even jail statistics there is hardly atheists in jails.

If you broke it down, I bet Liberal Quakers, United Church of Christ, and Unitarian Universalists would have similar statistics to atheists when it comes to strong families and good life outcomes.

---

On the other hand, the people who do Christian spiritual healing are able to heal even extreme cases of cancer, schizophrenia, and other ills that medicine cannot do alone.

Medicine cures cancer all the time. schizophrenia is an irreversible brain disorder, if someone cured it, then it wasn't schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can be managed, it can be treated, its symptoms can be alleviated, but it cannot be cured as yet. A well-documented case of this being accomplished would make medical history and garner global attention.

I have never seen atheists or Buddhist able to cure severe cases of demonic sickness, that only the Christian deliverance prayers seem to be able to handle and get rid of.

I am willing to concede that theists may have a home-field advantage in addressing imaginary illnesses.

The other prayers/meditations work the same on the personal level and register the same in the brain as studies show; but with the deeper spiritual sickness that causes mental and criminal illness and addictions, the Christians definitely have an advantage there that I haven't seen other systems able to match.

Have you considered that you may be biased and that in any event, your personal experiences are probably not a large enough sample size from which to draw such broad conclusions?

Those prayers are more concentrated and centralized on a level where those demonic and occult energies operate and can overpower the human mind and will where the other levels of prayer operate.

Have you considered translating that into secular terms? Because that version sounds like nonsense.

I would like to see scientific research in this area to prove the difference between dark energies of occult/sorcery/magic and the light energies of positive prayers, plus the concentrated prayers of the people who do exorcisms and deliverance that other prayers can't do.

Scientific research in this area has been hampered by the lack of any evidence above anecdotal that those 'dark energies' actually exist as anything but psychological constructs.