Prayer in School

[Erinome]

It's none of my business. They find it amusing that people talk to an imaginary being, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried it, just to see what happens, neither would I be surprised if they realized it does nothing, and didn't make it a habit. Besides, to which god would they pray? The one you worship, or the hundreds they make up just for fun?

Thanks for clearing that up...it just came off as if you prohibited them from getting involved with religion.

Also there are thousands upon thousands of gods already made up. They would probably find it interesting to research them I think.

No I don't prohibit them from getting involved with religion. I would never do that. Their father is a very religious man, and since they're not even allowed back at his church anymore, he doesn't bother discussing it with them like he used to.

We have many conversations about the made up gods. They're actually fond of the Aztecan gods/culture at the moment. They refuse to even refer to jesus as anything other than a demigod. I was really impressed with my son, who turns 8 today, made the connection himself after I explained to him what a demigod was.

My kids are pretty smart and have been taught how to think, rather than what to think. If they want to pray, it's their business, but if they ever try to make someone else do it, or disrupt class by doing it, then we'll have some problems.

[Polaris]

Thanks for clearing that up...it just came off as if you prohibited them from getting involved with religion.

Also there are thousands upon thousands of gods already made up. They would probably find it interesting to research them I think.

No I don't prohibit them from getting involved with religion. I would never do that. Their father is a very religious man, and since they're not even allowed back at his church anymore, he doesn't bother discussing it with them like he used to.

We have many conversations about the made up gods. They're actually fond of the Aztecan gods/culture at the moment. They refuse to even refer to jesus as anything other than a demigod. I was really impressed with my son, who turns 8 today, made the connection himself after I explained to him what a demigod was.

My kids are pretty smart and have been taught how to think, rather than what to think. If they want to pray, it's their business, but if they ever try to make someone else do it, or disrupt class by doing it, then we'll have some problems.

The Aztec gods may have been the gods of at least some of my ancestors. One of my favorite dishes used to have human meat as the main ingredient. Told that to some Christians...they did not respond.

[Braioch]

I'm going to have to agree with it being a student sanctioned act outside of school designated education time. That is the students can take the time during their recess and lunch and flail all about, in a private setting. (As I'm sorry, even when I had a religious bent when I was younger, it was something that I felt was private and didn't need to be intruded upon) NOT for the school to go "alright boys and girls, now is prayer time for all you good little religious students to go do your duty to your respective gods." That takes away from the whole seperation of church and state to me and I'm quite vehemently opposed to that.

As for all that rambling bullshit that you managed to spout off that gave away your blatant racism Polaris, I call shenanigans on that. Sorry you can't sit there and say "hey, since you guys are the majority of this country/social group/etc, you can't say be a dick to the minorities, but they can do it to you." Clear cut racism right there, and I'm going to tell you the same thing that I tell other racists, no matter what color they are, cram your narrow minded opinions up your ass.

Don't even get me going on your fucking strawman 'gay people wouldn't be allowed to kiss in public on that logic' bullshit. If you can't create a good argument, don't repeat the same one over and over despite the fact that they've been refuted. Then you just manage to make yourself look like an idiot, which if it was your objective, congrats, you have succeeded.

[Reforged]

That was *not* the argument you used. You were stating that black people had every right to be racist to white people without any repercussions. By that logic my nephews have every right to despise me based on my race and it would be all well and good.
What you suggest *is* oppression, it *is* subservience but not for your race. For mine. Not content with the ideal that we should all be equal in terms of rights you would seek to give the right to one race to show hatred to another. This would inevitably encourage hatred in return.
Like I said; unacceptable.

Isn't what you describe as unacceptable almost the norm in the United States? For example, it is perfectly acceptable for people to badmouth the white Republicans especially about them being white, but if someone says something bad about Obama, it becomes racist. Also minorities can say racist words, but as soon as a white person says it, they are extremely chastised.

On equal rights, I would support them if there were actual equal rights. There are not.

Anyone with any intelligence agrees those people who "badmouth" based purely on race, any race, are moronic, prejudiced assholes as are the people who agree with them. It is not acceptable by any stretch of the imagination nor is your sinking to their level and then attempting to cover your tracks. It is common knowledge among anyone with a solid grasp of human nature and current events that most members of the public in the *world*, let alone in the US, are idiots who will believe anything and follow the crowd as soon as blink.
If you feel obligated to conform to that crowd in your line of reasoning then do not expect anyone here to credit you with any strength of character or sound judgement. You forfeit any right to claim that the second you use "well everyone else is doing it" as an excuse.

[Cinjin]

I would just like to firstly say, Polaris, you should've quit this thing some time ago. Everyone now thinks you're a total ass.

And secondly, the atheists that I personally know are AWESOME people who don't go around attacking christians, muslims, or anyone else religious. They're not trying to prevent anyone from praying in public or worshiping how they see fit. In fact, as long as the religious people around them don't push their beliefs onto them, they're more than willing to share a beer (or an ice-water) with them at any time. Not a single one of my atheist friends has EVER tried to convince me not to be a deist and they have certainly never tried to prevent any grade-schooler from praying for his lunch.

In fact, the only people ever trying to prevent others from doing harmless activities that don't interfere with the rights of others are indeed ... you guessed it ... the religious.

[FemmeRealism]

How many of you would be alright (aka not try to oppose) with prayer in a public school if it was only endorsed for the students of the school who wanted to have it?

The school and teachers would in no way push for other students to join...(only the students/parents would be able to make the choice on their own) and the prayer time would only be offered during their recess or break period thereby not actually taking time away from actual education.

Personally, I think that would be tolerable, if the prayer were held without the children who did not consent to it present and it was not forced upon any individual in any way.

[Cato]

The Aztec gods may have been the gods of at least some of my ancestors. One of my favorite dishes used to have human meat as the main ingredient. Told that to some Christians...they did not respond.

Let's give your Aztec religion/ancestory the proper credence. At recess, almost all children will go dig up the asphault, formally known as a basketball court, and construct a crude step pyramid. The most non-athletic of the mass (this means no real physical resistance) is brought to the peak of the asphault step-pyramid to have his/her beating heart extracted and head cut off before tumbling down the steps. All non-dead participants rejoice in the fact that they will now earn a perfect mark in the courses that are taught after recess.

[Darth]

Actually, that sounds about right from what I remember of school, only without the least athletic being raised above the others else before having their heart ripped out.

[KnockEmOuttt]

The issue I really have with all of this is not so much religious organizations in schools (if it's done off education time and it's not crammed down my throat). It's that the school is used to reach and preach. The students in the religious club in my high school were allowed to put up posters about hell and sin and all that, telling people they could come after school and sit in a classroom to learn all about sin and hell and how it can be avoided. On the flip side, there was a whole big deal when the Gay-Straight Aliiance marched in the homecoming parade. So it was fine to preach fire and brimstone in the classroom after school, but it was inappropriate to promote acceptance. Eh, the double standard always confuses me.

[pgrimes15]

How many of you would be alright (aka not try to oppose) with prayer in a public school if it was only endorsed for the students of the school who wanted to have it?

The school and teachers would in no way push for other students to join...(only the students/parents would be able to make the choice on their own) and the prayer time would only be offered during their recess or break period thereby not actually taking time away from actual education.

Surely any student can pray all day long if they want to, during classes, during exams, during recess, while they're having lunch etc. - who's ever going to know ? The question is about PUBLIC praying, or about BEING SEEN TO PRAY that is a different thing and begins to flirt with prosyletising. As a previous post has said, let the Christian Club/Union/Fellowship whatever it's called have the same access to time, resources, classroom premises, noticeboard space etc. as the Chess Club. No more and no less.

Regards

Grimesy