Obama care

[Creed of Heresy]

I thnik health care hurt Obama in the mid-term elections and i think it will hurt this November. I won't vote for Obama thsi November but i did the first time around. I work out don't eat processed foods or sugars, white bread, don't smoke, drink, etc Now i have to pay for people who smoke, eat, drink themsleves to death, That is crazy.
I can't stand Romney but i will vote for him, really i am voting against Obama.
I have read that if somone is making $29.000 or less Obama care is free, I have also read if a salary is $10,000 Obama care will cost about $800.00 a year, Which is alot for a person making so little, I have also read no one knows the cost yet because the states will decide what a person owes. Does anyone here know?

Manowar

Ok, so you don't eat processed foods or sugars or blah blah blah, you're a health nutter, and you use this as a justification to not give up your MONEY, your finite, material thing, to help people who are poor and have no health insurance and have CANCER. You're a sick fuck and I hate every fiber of your being and I hope you get cancer and drop fucking dead, and GET THIS, dipshit; you can get all sorts of diseases no matter how healthy a lifestyle you may lead, INCLUDING CANCER. Which I hope you get. Did I mention that already? Because I really do.

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Just because your stupid twisted small little mind can't imagine being hit by a bus Mr. Manowar, I've lost others to exactly that.

Your "all about me" attitude is poison and should be stamped out, not legitimized.

You don't even fucking understand the difference between no insurance and some insurance (HINT -- its' a difference in tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to the hospital when you need it).

You can't even contribute the the public health insurance pool! What an asshole!

Fine.

You shouldn't be forced to get healthcare but society should get the right to shun you and refuse to do business with you.

Because you're just a parasite on herd immunity.

And parasites, while free to be individuals, shouldn't get the right to force themselves upon society.

You can't have it both ways.

This. ALL of this, right here.

[Zen Badger]

The saddest thing is that if Obama had said he was going to spend that money on the military he would have been cheered.

[KichigaiNeko]

America is fucked anyway..let them die.... let them all die.

[Manowar]

Stue I agree with you

Just so you know I am not one of those people who refuse to get medical insurance and then go to the emergeny room. I pay my own way.

Hey Creed, you are one angry idiot, hoping i get a disease is as worthless as praying i get a disease, you should know that, but i figured out why you are so angry, you are one of the FAT losers that eat themsleves to death, right? Your jealousy comes through your replies

Moros, don't understand you at all Having medical insurance will not prevent one from being hit by a bus, but if i was hit the insurance the bus has will pay my medical bills. Sorry about your friends though, no one should die like that but it does not change my point.

My main complaint that you guys don't understand is that it's too expensive for me that's why i don't have health insurance and am careful so i don't need to see a doctor. It's been working for me a long time. I don't even have a medical records, isn't that incredible. What i am have learned is for the most part Doctors are not needed. Obama, arrogant SOB that he is, says insurance will be affordable, who the hell gives him the right to tell anyone what's affordable?

Manowar

[C.W. Sims]

Manowar, I assure you I do not mean this in a bad way. I am simply curious about something that just popped into my head. I was wondering if you were perhaps an Objectivist? If you are then I can completely understand your objection to this entire program. I don't see objectivism as a bad thing, so please don't take it as my being snarky or rude in any way by asking this, I was just curious.

[Jaysyn]

I work out don't eat processed foods or sugars, white bread, don't smoke, drink, etc

Neither did Lance Armstrong.

Let's just hope that you don't develop narcolepsy in your mid-30's, through absolutely no fault of your own like my girlfriend did. Her night time meds (the ones she *has* to take so she can get actual post-REM restful sleep & doesn't fall asleep while walking around or driving to & from school or work.) cost $4000 a month, her daytime meds are another $160 a month, on the rare occasion that she can get that entire script filled. She doesn't have any insurance either. No insurance company will take her. She can sometimes get the night time meds discounted. Medicare picks it up occasionally, guess who already pays for that?

You don't think she deserves a chance at a normal life? You don't think her kids deserve a chance to have a normal childhood with their mom?

Or are you like the Congressional Republicans who think she just needs to go ahead & die quickly & quietly?

[DeistPaladin]

I thnik health care hurt Obama in the mid-term elections and i think it will hurt this November.

Actually, what hurt Obama is he campaigned on "Yes we can!" and governed on "Aw c'mon guys." His spineless, wimpy, prematurely compromising approach to the opposition demoralized his own base. This is reflected in the exit polls in how the voting blocks that supported him in 2008 didn't show up to the polls in 2010.

He even bitch-slapped his own base prior to 2010 by telling us to "buck up" and "stop whining". That was a great moment in leadership.

I won't vote for Obama thsi November but i did the first time around. I work out don't eat processed foods or sugars, white bread, don't smoke, drink, etc Now i have to pay for people who smoke, eat, drink themsleves to death, That is crazy.

I have some personal experience I'd like to share with you.

Three years ago, my wife did a terrible thing. She got sick. Very sick. She doesn't smoke, drink or do anything else that might have brought it on. She has asthma. And then she caught a cold. And the cold turned into pneumonia and she wound up in the ICU. I nearly lost her.

Fortunately, I'm one of the lucky Americans who has a crappy health insurance policy provided where I work. Even more lucky, she has dissimilar body parts to me (unlike my previous significant other) so we were graciously allowed by the state to have a ceremony by which I could cover her under my policy.

Thanks to both of these strokes of luck, her care was only ruinously expensive as opposed to unattainable. I had to liquidate my retirement savings along with hers to pay for most of it.

Don't tell me America has a fine health care system that doesn't need fixing. I know better. If you don't, I hope for your sake you never have to go through what I did.

I can't stand Romney but i will vote for him, really i am voting against Obama.

If you're a billionaire or even a millionaire, I understand.
If not, you're an idiot.

I have read that if somone is making $29.000 or less Obama care is free, I have also read if a salary is $10,000 Obama care will cost about $800.00 a year, Which is alot for a person making so little, I have also read no one knows the cost yet because the states will decide what a person owes. Does anyone here know?

Manowar

Yes, repealing "Obama care" will add to the debt.

Our current system is both monstrously inhumane and monstrously inefficient. Americans pay the most and get the least compared to elsewhere in the world.

Put aside the human factor stories like my wife's. Just look at the numbers. We have a system where for-profit insurance companies are supposed to provide health care for people. Guess what? Health care costs money. So these middlemen, who serve no purpose in the system at all, have a vested interest to knock sick people off the roles, discriminate according to pre-existing conditions, deny claims and make doctors spend administrative time and money jumping through hoops.

We've put foxes (for profit health insurance) in charge of the chicken coup and wonder why the foxes are eating the chickens instead of taking care of them. No wonder our current system is so fucked up.

Business school 101: you get what you reward. We are hoping that insurance companies will act against their own interests. That's why our system is broken.

As for the poor, uninsured scum you're so worried about, what happens now is they wait until they're dying, go to the emergency room and stick you and me with the bill. Better that they get preventative care and nip life threatening problems in the bud before they become costly to take care of. "An ounce of prevention..." and all that.

[Darth]

That's a tad harsh creed. Who said anything about him not donating his time or money to help people, we don't know if he does or doesn't (and he should be free to decide what he does with his time and stuff). Who would object to any of that voluntary good stuff, I object to people being forced to help people not of their own choosing. Poor starving kids in another country < neo-nazi dickhead in your own? Who wouldn't object to that nonsense?

Even you, wishing death upon somebody else, why should you be forced to foot the bill for the person you hate so much should they fall ill, and why should he have to foot the bill for you?

And have I earnt your hatred as well?

I see your point, Stue, but I just can't get over the fact that the health care system in our country is so badly broken. I want universal health care for our people. I don't think health care should be something you have to pay for. It is essential to maintain life. Now with that said we as a society should also exert more pressure on people to live more healthily. All I know is this, it's broken beyond belief and we need to do something to fix it. I don't know exactly what. I can just say this, at least Obama is trying to open the subject up.

I also try my best to understand your point and empathize, you have a shitty healthcare system, which would be immensely frustrating (I don't live over there however so I'm not going to pretend I understand it as you might), I just don't think this is a viable, or ethical, solution. "I don't think health care should be something you have to pay for." It is, it always will be, only now you're all paying for it in a different way.




Also, to all the people claiming the nhs has definitely saved x person, or that everybody needs it at some point (downbeatplum). Nuh-uh.

For the sake of argument lets say it does improve healthcare, lets say it is wonderful, perfect even, a score of 100% (which we know isn't true). The fact that it exists means you're not relying on other systems (like the American one for instance, which we'll say is the second best possible, for the sake of argument [though we know that isn't true either]), which would exist in the absence of the nhs. Lets say the American system is downright abysmal and scores a very low 12% rating, well then, the NHS gets credit for 88%, not credit for 100%. Even if it were true that everybody did rely upon it at some point, that would be because they've already paid for it, so it exists in the place of alternatives, why pay for something when you've already paid for it?

[Manowar]

People here say i am selfish, a me attitude. Yes, by all means lets worry about the 10% of the population that uses up 50% of the resources,people that don't give a F...k about others footing the bill
don't care about changing their lifestlyes smoking until their fingertips are yellow, people who are going to get drunk out of their minds, people who don't want to take personal responsibilty for their actions. F..k it someone else will pay so why stop? Those are the same ones that drive costs up but again they they don't give a shit, why should they Obama will come to their rescue. let's not worry about the single mother who can't make ends meet but now has another tax to pay. She does not count, drug addicts do. My objection is that is COSTS TOO MUCH simple. When people are taxed to death they become oppressed. I know we pay for it in other ways but about $5000 a year from my wallet is way too much I guess we won't agree on this Stop being Obama's tools


Manowar

[DeistPaladin]

People here say i am selfish, a me attitude. Yes, by all means lets worry about the 10% of the population that uses up 50% of the resources,people that don't give a F...k about others footing the bill
don't care about changing their lifestlyes smoking until their fingertips are yellow, people who are going to get drunk out of their minds, people who don't want to take personal responsibilty for their actions. F..k it someone else will pay so why stop? let's not don't worry about the single mother who can't make ends meet but now has another tax to pay. She does not count, drug addicts do. My objection is that is COSTS TOO MUCH simple. When people are taxed to death they become oppressed. I know we pay for it in other ways but about $5000 a year from my wallet is way too much I guess we won't agree on this Stop being Obama's tools

Manowar

OK, forget about the human factor. Let's also put aside that others have tried to explain to you, with specific examples like with my wife, that those who get sick or need health care aren't necessarily those who've lived a reckless lifestyle. Put all that aside.

Let's talk strictly about costs.

America has the most expensive, least effective, least humane and most inefficient health care system in the developed world. Literally we pay the most and get the least.

Why?

First, our system is run by for-profit health insurance companies who have a vested interest to NOT provide health care. We've put foxes in charge of the chicken coup and wonder why they're eating all the chickens instead of taking care of them.

This is nothing short of insanity.

Second, said health insurance companies do nothing but be a useless middleman even at the best of times. They serve no purpose but to be a pest for both doctors and patients. They are parasites, not productive parts of the system.

Third, poor people who don't have health insurance will simply go without care until their problems become life threatening and then they go to the emergency room. By the time they do, what might have required only preventative care has ballooned into a costly fix. ...and guess who pays for that?

Hope this helps.