Obama care

[C.W. Sims]

I guess we won't agree on this

This is where you are wrong. I actually agree with quite a bit that you are saying. I honestly feel that people like the ones you are describing should be completely excluded from health care systems unless they personally pay for it.

I will quantify what I said earlier as this, health care should not (normally) be something you have to pay for. However, should it be shown that your health problems are your own fault and you aren't actively trying to make changes, well that's sort of on you now isn't it? In the case that what I just said is shown to happen the person should be put out in the cold and made to fend for themselves. When you abuse the system I feel you deserve for the system to drop you like a used up hooker. When you smoke, drink, party it up, do drugs, grossly overeat, refuse to exercise, or any other combination of things that you know are detrimental to your health you are abusing the system.

With that said, I am for universal health care for those who will not abuse it. Just like I am for food stamps and wic for those who won't abuse it. I am also for greatly increasing the regulations on said social programs to make it much more difficult for them to be abused and to harshly punish those who do abuse.

I sort of fall about halfway into the spectrum of Objectivism without all the childish selfishness that goes along with it. So before you just assume that you are alone in this and get belligerent you might want to really try to have a conversation with someone.

[Autumnlicious]

People who smoke/drink a lot are cheaper for health care in the end run as most of them simply die young.

[C.W. Sims]

People who smoke/drink a lot are cheaper for health care in the end run as most of them simply die young.

Quite true, which is why I go to great lengths to not be one of them. I might have a small drink here and there but rarely if ever do I get drunk and I have smoked maybe once in my life. Awful experience. It's not impossible to live a fantastic life without drugs, alcohol or smoking, so yeah that is something I am never going to be compassionate about.

[Creed of Heresy]

Hey Creed, you are one angry idiot, hoping i get a disease is as worthless as praying i get a disease, you should know that, but i figured out why you are so angry, you are one of the FAT losers that eat themsleves to death, right? Your jealousy comes through your replies

YES. YES, you stupid fucking inbred piece of shit, I'm jealous and fat and eating myself to death. That's why I'm 6'2" and can barely manage to hit 180 lbs.

Go get cancer and die, please.

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That's a tad harsh creed. Who said anything about him not donating his time or money to help people, we don't know if he does or doesn't (and he should be free to decide what he does with his time and stuff). Who would object to any of that voluntary good stuff, I object to people being forced to help people not of their own choosing. Poor starving kids in another country < neo-nazi dickhead in your own? Who wouldn't object to that nonsense?

Even you, wishing death upon somebody else, why should you be forced to foot the bill for the person you hate so much should they fall ill, and why should he have to foot the bill for you?

And have I earnt your hatred as well?

Someone who lumps everyone incapable of paying for health insurance into the generic label of "willful self destruction" as he has is not very likely to be a stand-up paragon of charity. In fact, the odds of it happening are next to nothing. Everything he says exudes the oily stench of whining about "me me me me me! It's all about ME!" He reminds me of a petulant whining brat stomping his foot when told he has to share his toy with a younger sibling. So, yes, voluntary good stuff? I highly doubt this motherfucker has spent even a minute working at a soup kitchen by the way he acts. And given that he has NOT countered any of the current accusations of him being selfish with any mentions of charity...

You'll notice I never said I wouldn't foot the bill if he got sick and had to rely on public healthcare. I would, and I would do it gladly, smugly, in fact. I'd do it and then send him a nice little letter informing him that my tax dollars went to treating his sickly ass even though he spent a bunch of time bitching about what a terrible idea it is, just so I can laugh at the irony, because fuck knows I love delicious irony.

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OK, forget about the human factor. Let's also put aside that others have tried to explain to you, with specific examples like with my wife, that those who get sick or need health care aren't necessarily those who've lived a reckless lifestyle. Put all that aside.

Let's talk strictly about costs.

America has the most expensive, least effective, least humane and most inefficient health care system in the developed world. Literally we pay the most and get the least.

Why?

First, our system is run by for-profit health insurance companies who have a vested interest to NOT provide health care. We've put foxes in charge of the chicken coup and wonder why they're eating all the chickens instead of taking care of them.

This is nothing short of insanity.

Second, said health insurance companies do nothing but be a useless middleman even at the best of times. They serve no purpose but to be a pest for both doctors and patients. They are parasites, not productive parts of the system.

Third, poor people who don't have health insurance will simply go without care until their problems become life threatening and then they go to the emergency room. By the time they do, what might have required only preventative care has ballooned into a costly fix. ...and guess who pays for that?

Hope this helps.

You can't help the clinically stupid, Deist. You might as well be arguing with a creationist for all the good it'll do.

[DeistPaladin]

You can't help the clinically stupid, Deist. You might as well be arguing with a creationist for all the good it'll do.

Clinically stupid or gets all his information from Fox?

It's the old "nature vs. nurture" debate.

[Manowar]

DP and Sims i agree with that and i never said we should not fix health care it is just something i never thought of because i never go to doctors. For me a check up is just something that never crosses my mind. Here is a quick story About 4 years ago i was curious about my cholesterol and the local drug store will check it and blood sugar for a few dollars My blood sugar was perfect even though i was addicted to hershey's chocolate bars. My cholesterol was 267 I was shocked!
I was lean to normal about 16% body fat Then after looking it up the problem was eating too much sugar which apparently will knock up cholestrol levels I cut down my chocolate but did not stop and 3 weeks later cholesterol was 197 The lady was surpirsed it went down so much in that amount of time. don't need drugs just eat right and life will change incredibly, people will feel better and look better and put doctors out of business

Creed, i think you are lying. Don't spend too much time hoping i get cancer I am ripped to the bone now, so odds are low for me getting sick, however you . . . . . are so angry you just might.
I am a bit more mature than you I don't want you to get cancer! so relax.

Manowar

[C.W. Sims]

Environmental pollution can also lead to spontaneous generation of cancerous cells in any organism. Just for your info. My Aunt Eva was one of the healthiest people I knew, and contracted lung cancer, though she had never smoked, or been around smokers. She hated smoke and wouldn't tolerate it. She would leave a place before allowing the smoke to contaminate her clothes or hair and go around smelling like that. That's how bad she was about it. One day she was diagnosed with lung cancer and died six months later. Apparently it ran in the family or was caused by some sort of environmental contaminant, they were never totally sure. Simple fact of the matter is this, no one is immune to the shit that happens in life. We all need a safety net from time to time, and as a society we should at least attempt to help each other out when we can.

[frankiej]

Yeah, it doesn't matter how healthy you are. You should prepare for the worst... why do you think I keep a baseball bat next to my bed? Zombies, my friend... zombies.

[DeistPaladin]

Here's another story for you Manowar:

One of my wife's best of friends led an extremely healthy lifestyle to say the least. She never drank or smoked. She was a black belt. She loved hiking and mountain climbing. She always exercised and was in great shape for most of her life. She's now dead from cancer. She never made it to 40.

Just keep telling yourself, "It'll never happen to me. Health care is something only reckless, smoking, lazy over-eaters will ever need."

I see you buzzed right past my discussion of how inefficient, wasteful and stupidly designed our current system is. Even forgetting the human factor, just looking at the costs alone our health care system is in dire need of an overhaul.

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[Erinome]

My sister is 24, a vegan, and runs 4 miles every morning. She doesn't smoke or drink, and never has. She's the picture of health... except for the fact she has Crohn's disease, and now has to have her colon removed. Have fun with your picture of health, manowar. One day you're going to need it to remember what the shit looked like, and then you'll probably be just as thankful as my sister for the ACA.