Had to take a break from the stupid. Now I'm back and ready for more brain-mashing theistic bullshit.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Hell is an expansive place not all of it is described as 'fire.'
...but it's fire, though. It is a place of suffering, typically described as a "lake of fire". If I'm off, just summarize "Hell".
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Quote:Everything anyone ever does is part of God's plan.
No Everything we do is against God's expressed will or law. Even so, this is still apart of His plan.
"So everything we do is a part of his plan...?"
"Well, no... it's against his will. But yeah, it's part of his plan."
Is this a fair summary?
Yes, everything is a part of his plan?
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: I could argue this point by saying your understanding of what you have described is off, and then redefine everything according to scripture. But, this is not the underlying problem. That problem centers around the fact you feel you can judge God with what you understand to be 'fair.' An understanding based on popular morality.
Justice is a concept, but what you present is the antitheses of justice. The concept of justice entails different things than morality, and is separate. Thus, my following "popular morality" has nothing to do with my argument. A just God would be incapable of creating a place of infinite suffering for finite crimes. The crime of unbelief being one, a just God would be required to present evidence of himself as to avoid the possibility that there was a person that never sinned but didn't believe he existed.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: what was the other part? Redemption for all who seek it.
Redemption is only an option if you believe there is something to redeem. Because God hasn't evidenced himself to millions in a satisfactory way, he has failed to show that we need redemption.
On that note, you are screwed in the head if you believe we need to be redeemed for something that your God planned from the start.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: The choice is redemption. Something I have illustrated, by you own admission.
What?? You yourself said that everything goes according to God's plan. There cannot be free will in that scenario. (Freedom to choose yor own actions).
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: I accepted redemption, you refused it. I chose to accept, you chose to reject. do you See the Choice now?!?!
You chose to accept redemption... according to the plan God laid out for you. So no, I don't see the choice. You committing the logical fallacy "special pleading" over and over when you exempt one attribute or another from God or his plan to allow it to get away with internal flaws. For example, you say that everything goes by God's plan. However, you also say that there is choice and that you can choose. So, which is it?
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: One can not except on his own but one can ask God to help him accept what his heart rejects. (I did this very thing)
So you didn't believe/except him until after you asked him to help you accept him? Really? That assumes that you believed at the same time you didn't.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: start a new thread i am doing prayer here.
I get it, but...
To put it in the simplest terms possible:
You started it. Don't accuse me of committing a fallacy and then expect to walk away without being questioned on it.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Again the choice is not whether or not to sin the choice is whether or not to accept redemption.
It's all in the plan. Except this... and that... and this...
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Those people starve for one reason. Because people like you who see a need do not fill it.
Way to assume that I am not doing anything for those that starve- and while I'm on the topic, why don't you sell your stuff and give the money to the needy, then spend less time on an atheist site and more time helping those in need.
In a world without a God, those people starve because there are not enough people willing to help them or that can help them. In a world with a God where it is God's plan for them to starve, the blame lies on your God.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: what if you simply did not understand what love is? what if your idea of love was little more than a binding codependant relationship? Because 'your friend' did not force you into codependance He did not love you?
So now you are going to redefine love?
I can't tell you what love is. Love is subjective. I can tell you what love isn't- love isn't allowing the deaths of billions. Love isn't allowing suffering and starvation. Love isn't allowing natural sufferings to occur. Nor is this justice, as these people didn't deserve the life that was dealt to them.
Oh, and my comperhensive skills are just fine, thank you (whatever those are).[/quote]It's a term they used in the 80's to politely tell a Learning disabled boy's parents that he did not/could not retain what he just read.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: ..And we return to the crux of your faith..
The crux of my "faith"? What? I have no faith.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: I am not here to argue faith. i gave you several oppertunities to explore what Praying for the will of God could yield, but you decided to reinforce your core beliefs with this statement instead.
I decided to break down your silly version of useless prayer and explain why it is impossible to distinguish from talking to yourself.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Which effectivly ends the conversation.
Run away!
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: I gave you a biblical perspective on prayer, outlined it and supported it, and you want to argue your faith.
I want to show you that your version of prayer is indistinguishable... you know what? If you don't get it by now you won't ever get it.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: God gave you a choice to make and you made it.
Actually, no he didn't. Remember the whole plan thing? I have no choice.
(August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm)Drich Wrote: Far be it from me to try and change it or tell you, you made the wrong one.
And I can just as easily tell you you made that wrong one.
Really, getting on here to redefine prayer to what you suppose scripture says it is is stupid. You believe scripture says this- I get it. Many, many others believe scripture says prayer can cause changes in the world. Others still believe it appeases God, allowing him to cause miracles.
And guess what? They can all support it with the same Bible. I could care less what one person thinks their bible says about prayer, because it avoids the central issues and is of little to no concern to an atheist. Neither you nor anyone else who believes that their bible has something to say on a topic will concede the point, not to an atheist or a fellow theist. So what even bring this up?
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