The Lie of the True Christian™

[Brakeman]

..the actual passage.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Here Jesus identifies those who sincerly believe, for look at all thay have supposedly done in the name of Christ)22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
In Verse 23 we clearly see they were not 'True Believers' (cinny's term) As Christ clearly says He never knew them.

Poor people, they truly believed they were doing what they should to please god/jesus and had exercised "god power" to support their thinking that they were on the right track, but they were mistaken in their interpretation somehow and banished to a torturous eternity in hell. Sweet love and compassion there jesus!

What a monster!. Thanks for the verse, D.

[Drich]

If your test is A/S/K, then I ask for a test of your test, being a way to verify that your test works properly and reliably.

The 'proof' is found when you receive what you are A/S/King for. What better 'proof' of God can there be than God? Because again that is what you are Asking, Seeking, and knocking for. a Measure of the Holy Spirit.

As I recently told a creationist I spoke with at a table discussion who quoted the bible, as a Hindu, I can play the same game. As a Hindu, I have the Vedas, sruti and smriti. If all you've got is a book, I don't care what you have to say. If all you've got is a book, you're just talking out of your ass.

You absolutly right, a book in of itself is completely meaningless. Just like a treasure map that does not lead to treasure. The only value a 'book' or a treasure map has is if it leads you to what it promises you will find.

---

..the actual passage.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Here Jesus identifies those who sincerly believe, for look at all thay have supposedly done in the name of Christ)22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
In Verse 23 we clearly see they were not 'True Believers' (cinny's term) As Christ clearly says He never knew them.

Poor people, they truly believed they were doing what they should to please god/jesus and had exercised "god power" to support their thinking that they were on the right track, but they were mistaken in their interpretation somehow and banished to a torturous eternity in hell. Sweet love and compassion there jesus!

What a monster!. Thanks for the verse, D.

There is nothing 'poor' about these people. They had the same oppertunity as those who make it into Heaven. They choose to worship God their way rather than humbling themselves before Him and worshiping Him his way. Their worship their religion their signs and wonders become thier God. God Himself has little to do with anything they do.

Again this is the difference between a 'True Christian' and a sincere christian.

[Godlesspanther]

Again this is the difference between a 'True Christian' and a sincere christian.

You're desperate, Drich, some bullshit written in a book does not serve as a reliable test and you know it. You just desperately want to make believe that their is some fundamental difference between you and ex-xtians and there isn't. That means that you too can lose your faith and be an ex-xtian yourself and that scares the pants off you.

There is some good news -- your condition is curable. You are suffering brain damage from cult indoctrination. All you have to do is wake up and come to terms with the fact that your sacred doctrine is a pile of shit. Then begin your life as a free man.

When this happens, I will open a bottle of champagne to celebrate.

[tokutter]

The 'proof' is found when you receive what you are A/S/King for. What better 'proof' of God can there be than God? Because again that is what you are Asking, Seeking, and knocking for. a Measure of the Holy Spirit.

Can you explain to me how my mormon relatives got this A/S/King thing to work for them Drich. Or are they lying to me??


.

[FiniteImmortal]

For those of you who seemingly have inner peace as atheists, can you explain why and from where you receive it? From yourselves or from society? Just curious.

If I were to reason out a guess, it would be something like this:
After being confronted with vast sadness, such as the Sandy Hook tragedy, inner peace comes by way of realizing there is no God. It inflates our emotional well being and insulates us from feeling pain by way of "it ultimately doesn't matter anyway, no actual real (only contrived) loss, as everthing is ultimately senseless anyway, and we are all going to die at some point anyway and forever". The inner peace that comes after unimaginable pain and loss can only come from devaluing the meaning of life across the board; to life only being random position of atoms reassembling themselves. When a massive asteroid is headed for earth, the atheist finds great comfort in knowing that at least everyone's else will die too, and this blink of human intelligence will forever be erased from existence, and no intelligence will ever be self aware enough to know we were ever here. That actually is comforting, but in a way that shows life to be ultimately useless, pointless, unnecessary and we must realize sadness is of silly convention when we complain of children dying or rights being violated, as they are figments of our imaginations.

You also can just say " I feel inner peace". But ad hock declarations can be made pragmatically by anyone without the need for a supporting framework.

[thesummerqueen]

The inner peace that comes after unimaginable pain and loss can only come from devaluing the meaning of life across the board; to life only being random position of atoms reassembling themselves.

What?

I value life MORE knowing that it happened WITHOUT aid. I get my peace knowing that no one but myself can assign meaning for me onto things - that I belong to this earth and to this vast universe. "For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return." right? I am stardust. If it makes you more comfortable, remember what Yoda said: "Luminous beings are we - not this crude matter." You carry the echoes of the births and deaths of stars - worlds and eons upon worlds and eons - in your very flesh and blood.

I am at peace because of what Whitman wrote:

I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

I take comfort as an atheist knowing that if an asteroid is headed to earth, there are other atheists who are science minded who will work to SAVE humanity, because we only get one life each - not people who will stand and shiver and pray. I take comfort knowing there are atheists working to preserve our consciousness from the fragility of these mortal bodies. I take comfort knowing others realize that SOMETHING ELSE DID NOT DICTATE OUR REASON FOR BEING and so we can all make our own - to write poetry that elevates the mind to its best thoughts, to create art that causes love or sympathy or outrage on another's behalf, to study the deep workings of our bodies to heal others, and to study the deep workings of space to give us new frontiers to explore.

I take comfort knowing that my atheist boyfriend doesn't believe he'll see me in heaven, so every kiss and every act of love-making and every shared smile is all the more important.

I take comfort in kids like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...B-11B9PtBM That kid clearly has better time management skills than most believers.

You don't know shit all in what we take comfort in, and believers take more comfort in their god than in their fellow man. How sad is that, when it's man who exists and could raise each other to the powers of gods, yet they'd rather live with their own delusions.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

For those of you who seemingly have inner peace as atheists, can you explain why and from where you receive it? From yourselves or from society? Just curious.

If I were to reason out a guess, it would be something like this:

---

After being confronted with vast sadness, such as the Sandy Hook tragedy, inner peace comes by way of realizing there is no God. It inflates our emotional well being and insulates us from feeling pain by way of "it ultimately doesn't matter anyway, no actual real (only contrived) loss, as everthing is ultimately senseless anyway, and we are all going to die at some point anyway and forever". The inner peace that comes after unimaginable pain and loss can only come from devaluing the meaning of life across the board; to life only being random position of atoms reassembling themselves. When a massive asteroid is headed for earth, the atheist finds great comfort in knowing that at least everyone's else will die too, and this blink of human intelligence will forever be erased from existence, and no intelligence will ever be self aware enough to know we were ever here. That actually is comforting, but in a way that shows life to be ultimately useless, pointless, unnecessary and we must realize sadness is of silly convention when we complain of children dying or rights being violated, as they are figments of our imaginations.

---

I get the impression that you haven't actually conversed with many atheists about topics such as this. You might do better to avoid making those kind of presuppositions.

You also can just say " I feel inner peace". But ad hock declarations can be made pragmatically by anyone without the need for a supporting framework.

(Emphasis added)

Yes, I noticed that too

[thesummerqueen]

This whole interview is why I am comforted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...Xh9RQCvxmg

[FiniteImmortal]

The inner peace that comes after unimaginable pain and loss can only come from devaluing the meaning of life across the board; to life only being random position of atoms reassembling themselves.

What?

I value life MORE knowing that it happened WITHOUT aid. I get my peace knowing that no one but myself can assign meaning for me onto things - that I belong to this earth and to this vast universe. "For you were made from dust, and to dust you will return." right? I am stardust. If it makes you more comfortable, remember what Yoda said: "Luminous beings are we - not this crude matter." You carry the echoes of the births and deaths of stars - worlds and eons upon worlds and eons - in your very flesh and blood.

I am at peace because of what Whitman wrote:

I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

I take comfort as an atheist knowing that if an asteroid is headed to earth, there are other atheists who are science minded who will work to SAVE humanity, because we only get one life each - not people who will stand and shiver and pray. I take comfort knowing there are atheists working to preserve our consciousness from the fragility of these mortal bodies. I take comfort knowing others realize that SOMETHING ELSE DID NOT DICTATE OUR REASON FOR BEING and so we can all make our own - to write poetry that elevates the mind to its best thoughts, to create art that causes love or sympathy or outrage on another's behalf, to study the deep workings of our bodies to heal others, and to study the deep workings of space to give us new frontiers to explore.

I take comfort knowing that my atheist boyfriend doesn't believe he'll see me in heaven, so every kiss and every act of love-making and every shared smile is all the more important.

You don't know shit all in what we take comfort in, and believers take more comfort in their god than in their fellow man. How sad is that, when it's man who exists and could raise each other to the powers of gods, yet they'd rather live with their own delusions.

I find it interesting you speak of beauty. Beauty doesn't exist in the universe, as love doesn't exist in the universe - by your own admission. It is a human invention, we created it and then are wowed by it. Does a sunset know its beautiful? A peacock? A nebula? No, because the concept of beauty comes only with the self awareness of over-sized human brains. This by definition is and invention of human intellect, just as the concept of God is an invention of human intellect; not actually existing in the universe, or so you believe. As many of your fellow believers on this board have told me, the beauty I see in my infant daughter is a trick played on me by my highly evolved brain.
How can you pick and choose which human inventions you uphold?

[thesummerqueen]

By how useful they are to the easing of suffering and aid in knowledge.

Beauty isn't an 'invention' - it's a perception. We find things beautiful because they incite a deep wonder and curiosity inside us.

I answered your shit about what atheists take comfort in, now move your happy ass along to some other conversational abomination. You clearly don't know shit about humanism. When I find comfort in knowing there is no god, it's because that means I have the power to do myself or to inspire others to end suffering - I don't have to wait on the mood of a capricious deity.