The simple truth

[Esquilax]

Some of the attitudes that I have witnessed on this forum are disgusting. The word of God prophesies of such:

"Dissmissive of nonsense," is not the same as "disgusting." Perhaps you'd find us more amenable if you just showed yourself willing to have an actual conversation, rather than just talking past us to puff up your holier than thou attitude. See, that hope I expressed a little while ago for an honest exchange of ideas extends to you too, but at the same time, you might be surprised how badly we take it when a stranger wanders into our group, outright lies to our faces and then when called on it smugly preaches to us, and caps it off by calling us "unloving, brutal, disgusting traitors."

How would you take it if I wandered into your church, called you those things, lied to you about what your bible says, and responded to anything you said by quoting the Quran at you?

[The Good News]

Hi there good news.

Could you satisfy my curiosity about a creationist question.

The world throngs with pathogenic bacteria and viruses. Things which kill people.

When were these creatures created? Because the creation of animals came before death. I understand why god would create animals designed to kill people before he decided people would have to die.

I don't know. I would say they probably came at the fall.

[Esquilax]

I don't know. I would say they probably came at the fall.

How does that work? You've made it very clear that life can't come from nothing, so did god make them? Does that not strike you as a somewhat unnecessary, evil act?

[The Good News]

Some of the attitudes that I have witnessed on this forum are disgusting. The word of God prophesies of such:

"Dissmissive of nonsense," is not the same as "disgusting." Perhaps you'd find us more amenable if you just showed yourself willing to have an actual conversation, rather than just talking past us to puff up your holier than thou attitude. See, that hope I expressed a little while ago for an honest exchange of ideas extends to you too, but at the same time, you might be surprised how badly we take it when a stranger wanders into our group, outright lies to our faces and then when called on it smugly preaches to us, and caps it off by calling us "unloving, brutal, disgusting traitors."

How would you take it if I wandered into your church, called you those things, lied to you about what your bible says, and responded to anything you said by quoting the Quran at you?

Well no I'm not "holier than thou." I am a sinner just like anyone else. But when people deny that they are sinful and yet so evidently are, that is disgusting to me.

An Internet forum is a little different than wandering into a church. You don't even have to acknowledge any of my posts.

[Esquilax]

Well no I'm not "holier than thou." I am a sinner just like anyone else. But when people deny that they are sinful and yet so evidently are, that is disgusting to me.

See, that's a part of being holier than thou. I know you don't see yourself that way, but all this "repent, ye sinners!" crap, especially to a bunch of people who don't believe in sin, makes it seem as though you're not interested in actually engaging with us. We've had so many people like you come in here, who don't see us as people, but rather targets to be preached at, and it's really hard to actually have a conversation with someone who won't even attempt to see things from our perspective.

I still have hope you may turn out differently.

An Internet forum is a little different than wandering into a church. You don't even have to acknowledge any of my posts.

Acknowledge? No. But then, if I came into your church, you could ignore me too. I'd still be there, though, and just like the church comparison, I can't ignore you either, because I'm a mod and I need to actually pay attention to what is being said around here.

But you still haven't answered the question: would you be receptive to what I had to say if I came into a specifically christian meeting place, spouted known falsehoods about what you believed to you, and then quoted a holy book that you don't believe in as justification?

[Alex K]

Well no I'm not "holier than thou." I am a sinner just like anyone else. But when people deny that they are sinful and yet so evidently are, that is disgusting to me.

*Sigh* you know, it's not that I think I am a perfect ethical being, far from it. It's just that the categories of good and evil, of sin and morals which you want to promote, are so simplistic that I find them completely inadequate to base any value judgements and actions on them, and they can even positively dangerous in their simple-mindedness. Your religion is just not good enough.

[The Good News]

Well no I'm not "holier than thou." I am a sinner just like anyone else. But when people deny that they are sinful and yet so evidently are, that is disgusting to me.

See, that's a part of being holier than thou. I know you don't see yourself that way, but all this "repent, ye sinners!" crap, especially to a bunch of people who don't believe in sin, makes it seem as though you're not interested in actually engaging with us. We've had so many people like you come in here, who don't see us as people, but rather targets to be preached at, and it's really hard to actually have a conversation with someone who won't even attempt to see things from our perspective.

I still have hope you may turn out differently.

An Internet forum is a little different than wandering into a church. You don't even have to acknowledge any of my posts.

Acknowledge? No. But then, if I came into your church, you could ignore me too. I'd still be there, though, and just like the church comparison, I can't ignore you either, because I'm a mod and I need to actually pay attention to what is being said around here.

But you still haven't answered the question: would you be receptive to what I had to say if I came into a specifically christian meeting place, spouted known falsehoods about what you believed to you, and then quoted a holy book that you don't believe in as justification?

Well I'll say it out loud that I certainly didn't come to this forum to make new friends. I came with the one intention of proclaiming the gospel. You've said a number of times that you feel I'm speaking past people, yet you don't seem concerned when others are nasty towards me.

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't be receptive of what you had to say, even in the slightest, so far as it was to do with atheism. Yet I would treat you with sincere respect and if anyone amongst my group were to disrespect you, I would rebuke them.

[Alex K]

Well I'll say it out loud that I certainly didn't come to this forum to make new friends. I came with the one intention of proclaiming the gospel.

ban hir! ban hir!

[pocaracas]

I came with the one intention of proclaiming the gospel.

Why?

Do you think we aren't aware of that text's existence?
Do you think that we haven't read it?
I assure you that most people here have read it... some actually studied it...

So... why go through the trouble of registering here and writing all that you have written and going through all the disrespectful treatment (in your mind)?

[Esquilax]

Well I'll say it out loud that I certainly didn't come to this forum to make new friends. I came with the one intention of proclaiming the gospel. You've said a number of times that you feel I'm speaking past people, yet you don't seem concerned when others are nasty towards me.

You bring that nastiness on yourself via your unwillingness to treat us with the basic courtesy of engaging in conversation. To be clear, we didn't start out mean; there are plenty of religious folks here who don't get any crap from us, by dint of beginning their time here on equal footing with the rest of us. Jacobsmooth is a christian, and he's very well liked here: why? He actually bothers to give a damn.

When you say that your intention here is to proclaim the gospel, the subtext is "I don't care about anything you or your perspective might have to say." It shows that you didn't come here with the intention of engaging with the community, and as I've been attempting to inform you, your message has a much better chance of actually being accepted if you're willing to look upon us as humans.

Or do the preachers at your church act as aloof and uninterested in conversation as you are?

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't be receptive of what you had to say, even in the slightest, so far as it was to do with atheism. Yet I would treat you with sincere respect and if anyone amongst my group were to disrespect you, I would rebuke them.

Respect is earned, not automatically afforded, and moreover, I'm not arrogant enough to count myself as the arbiter of other people's actions. I myself have been roughly courteous to you, because I'm not going to start out under the assumption that you're being dishonest, but I'm not going to presume to tell others how to address you.

Unfortunately, you've essentially confirmed to me now that you're not exactly worthy of respect, being that you're so intellectually incurious and unwilling to give a shit about our community.