Religion is a Delusion/Mental Illness

[Razzle]

From a psychiatrist's perspective, religion can be considered a delusion or illness (The God Delusion). This is why many religions are anti-psychiatry (Scientology is very anti-psychiatry). Hearing voices (God, angels, or demons) is a symptom of psychosis in mental illness. Speaking in tongues? Exorcisms? Religious delusions are common among the mentally ill and as we know the "sane" too. There is a book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti about three schizophrenic patients that thought they were Jesus. Prayer is trying to talk to "God." Anyone that talks to God needs an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer. I should know, part of my bipolar when I am manic is religiosity and obsession over existence of God, religion, the meaning of life and death. When I am stable, I am more rational and atheist in my thinking.

http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatr...hrenic.htm

If that were true, antipsychotics would stop religious people being religious. They don't. If you give a psychotic person an antipsychotic and it works, they only stop holding any religious beliefs that started after the onset of the episode, as you did. They don't suddenly stop believing the stuff they grew up with or converted to before the episode. The neurological causes, the mechanisms are completely different in what psychiatry defines as 'delusions' to what they are in most religious people's false beliefs.

Because indoctrination, experiences induced by the power of suggestion, and logical fallacies that lead to misattribution of natural phenomena are not the same neurologically as organic delusions, you can only cure the former by education or deprogramming, and the latter by drugs, electroshock or brain surgery.

[Razzle]

With all due respect, I don't think you know what you're talking about.  Name three diagnoses that fit the pattern you are claiming.

The very definition of "mental illness" ties it to social norms:

A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life (disability), and which is not a developmental or social norm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

"Impaired ability to function in ordinary life" means that one has a problem with dealing with the society in which one lives.  And what will be incompatible with ordinary functioning in a society is largely a matter of the society in which one lives.

That's exactly how we determine whether anything is an pathological state, not just mental conditions. 

Blindness would not be classed as a disability, and various causes of blindness would not be classed as illnesses and disorders, if all humans were born blind and our society was set up in a way that accommodated that. So what? Should we not try to find cures and treatments for blindness, and should we not give blind people disability status and the support and protections that entitles them to, just because it wouldn't be classed as such if everyone were the same? 

Not being able to fly is inconvenient and sometimes causes death, but it's not classed as a disability or disorder, because it's the norm not to be able to fly, and nothing in our daily lives makes it a problem because society is set up in a way that fully accommodates our inability to fly. Do you think it should be otherwise? How do you propose we define which conditions of the mind/skin/eye/lung/liver/ are,pathological and which are not? 

There are also cases in which something would be classed as an illness or disorder even if everyone did develop it - such as the plague. Communities didn't stop treating it as an illness to be cured just because all of them had it. That's because it's more than just impairing, it's deadly and causes suffering directly. The same is true of mental disorders. While there are some which are more like blindness, in that they're only impairing in a particular context (which happens to be a universally applicable context, unless there are mole-people we don't know about), there are other mental disorders that would always be classed as disorders even if there were a pandemic, either because they cause death (e.g. anorexia nervosa, like heart disease), or suffering directly (e.g. painful depression, like painful psoriasis of the skin) and/or are so incapacitating that humanity would die out if everyone had them, e.g. schizophrenia, like paraplegia.

What's really happening is a double-standard against mental disorders, and it's just one of many. Every criticism that's leveled at psychiatry can equally be leveled at haemotology or opthalmology, yet suspiciously never is.

[comet]

From a psychiatrist's perspective, religion can be considered a delusion or illness (The God Delusion). This is why many religions are anti-psychiatry (Scientology is very anti-psychiatry). Hearing voices (God, angels, or demons) is a symptom of psychosis in mental illness. Speaking in tongues? Exorcisms? Religious delusions are common among the mentally ill and as we know the "sane" too. There is a book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti about three schizophrenic patients that thought they were Jesus. Prayer is trying to talk to "God." Anyone that talks to God needs an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer. I should know, part of my bipolar when I am manic is religiosity and obsession over existence of God, religion, the meaning of life and death. When I am stable, I am more rational and atheist in my thinking.

http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatr...hrenic.htm

blatantly dehumanizing the enemy.  
good show. 

[Joshua martin pryce]

From a psychiatrist's perspective, religion can be considered a delusion or illness (The God Delusion). This is why many religions are anti-psychiatry (Scientology is very anti-psychiatry). Hearing voices (God, angels, or demons) is a symptom of psychosis in mental illness. Speaking in tongues? Exorcisms? Religious delusions are common among the mentally ill and as we know the "sane" too. There is a book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti about three schizophrenic patients that thought they were Jesus. Prayer is trying to talk to "God." Anyone that talks to God needs an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer. I should know, part of my bipolar when I am manic is religiosity and obsession over existence of God, religion, the meaning of life and death. When I am stable, I am more rational and atheist in my thinking.

http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatr...hrenic.htm

its actually atheists that are deluded because they say theres no purpose in life and we all come from apes and monkeys. thye blieve we came by chance and everything happened over millions of years. THATS delusion.

[ignoramus]

Matey, you need to be put down for your own good. Sorry. So sad. Your parents should be shot.

[The Inquisition]

From a psychiatrist's perspective, religion can be considered a delusion or illness (The God Delusion). This is why many religions are anti-psychiatry (Scientology is very anti-psychiatry). Hearing voices (God, angels, or demons) is a symptom of psychosis in mental illness. Speaking in tongues? Exorcisms? Religious delusions are common among the mentally ill and as we know the "sane" too. There is a book called the Three Christs of Ypsilanti about three schizophrenic patients that thought they were Jesus. Prayer is trying to talk to "God." Anyone that talks to God needs an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer. I should know, part of my bipolar when I am manic is religiosity and obsession over existence of God, religion, the meaning of life and death. When I am stable, I am more rational and atheist in my thinking.

http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatr...hrenic.htm

its actually atheists that are deluded because they say theres no purpose in life and we all come from apes and monkeys. thye blieve we came by chance and everything happened over millions of years. THATS delusion.

That was an awesome display of strawmanning, I think everything in that post was off the mark. Not even the science you pretend to understand was even close to being right. Good job!

[snookerman]

with a purely physical universe, the people coming to your door are a product of deterministic processes (or the random motion of particles)... as is your decision!

Minor corrections, in a purely deterministic universe......."this that and the other"(TTO™) are the product of deterministic processes.  The universe being purely physical is not a statement that guarantees this (nor "random" TTO)...and, ironically, in a "not purely physical" universe......... TTO could just as easily be deterministic or random.  There's really no sensible distinction between a physical and a physical+ universe, with regards to deterministic or random TTO.

So...no, the universe being purely physical does not lead to those people or your decisions being the result of deterministic processes.  To make that claim...you'll need a great deal more than just a physical universe.

everything I've heard about the physical world leads me to think of the motion of particles as deterministic or random... are there some other qualities?


so yes, I think a purely physical universe must be deterministic or random... I agree that a "physical+" universe may be deterministic or random...

so the difference I see is "must be" or "may be"

[Little lunch]

I wonder if Joshua also wants a fancy drink?
I think wearing high heels is a mental illness.
Although I like to think of them as sex aids. :-)

---

For when your with someone shorter than you.
Thought I should clear that up.

[The Grand Nudger]

Minor corrections, in a purely deterministic universe......."this that and the other"(TTO™) are the product of deterministic processes.  The universe being purely physical is not a statement that guarantees this (nor "random" TTO)...and, ironically, in a "not purely physical" universe......... TTO could just as easily be deterministic or random.  There's really no sensible distinction between a physical and a physical+ universe, with regards to deterministic or random TTO.

So...no, the universe being purely physical does not lead to those people or your decisions being the result of deterministic processes.  To make that claim...you'll need a great deal more than just a physical universe.

everything I've heard about the physical world leads me to think of the motion of particles as deterministic or random... are there some other qualities?

-everything you've heard- is alot of additional stuff, though, eh?  "This is made of stuff" - that's all a physical world entails.  "This is made of stuff and here are the rules as we've observed them" - is what you require.  Determinism isn't gauranteed by simple virtue of "stuff" existing, you see?  So no, there is no "must" in either the physical or the physical +.  

so yes, I think a purely physical universe must be deterministic or random... I agree that a "physical+" universe may be deterministic or random...

so the difference I see is "must be" or "may be"

You think that a purely physical universe which follows those rules you referenced, which behaves in the manner observed, that "everything you've heard" -must be deterministic or random. It might not be prudent to saddle a claim or statement with assumptions which it cannot, -by itself- support, eh? The two propositions (physical/physical +) do not, themselves, contain enough ass end to take us to a declaration of "must" regarding determinism, random, or "else".

(I don't disagree with you at all, btw, that might be important to keep in mind. I also think that our purely physical universe behaves in a deterministic manner. Ironically even this is not enough to conclude, with any certainty, that we behave in a purely deterministic manner. What is true of the whole may not be true of the part...though I am equally uninterested in making special exemptions in our case unless we can put forward some really good observations. All of this is additonal, nothing to do with responding to the above, just going down the rabbit hole. I'm not entirely certain how you could tease a "must" out of anything you've ever heard...tbh.)

[Cyberman]

I've never said nor heard anyone besides desperate fundies say there is no purpose in life; humans actually are apes; we didn't come by chance and everything didn't happen over millions of years - that's merely how long things have been happening for. I agree that everything you listed is a delusion.