Islam is the real deal

[huss88ein]

Even if Allah is real:

1) It punishes people for not submitting to it. That makes it a dick unworthy of my attention.

2) It has no noticeable effect on reality.

So I feel pretty safe ignoring the fantastical claims of Islam, whether they are true or not.

As it happens, the exact same argument works against Christianity as well. And point 2 applies to every religion.

My friend let me insist that your argument is good and much better than others .
As for the debate being pointless as claimed by other members it never is at least whether we r convinced in another point of view or part of it or not at all we are still learning alot and that's the whole point.

For your claims about if anything seems miraculous it hasn't have to be as the source is claiming I agree to that but by series of investigations and elimination process you can arrive to the truth and that's what I did , any scientific fact or historical or ethical or concerning society if isolated and studied alone in quran it wouldn't mean alot as I said before these are just signs , but if u study the whole thing as an entity you'll find that it's miraculous thats kind of my point.

So if you've studied facts Mentioned before they are just as guidelines.

As for Allah being cruel I believe we talked about that before and I've shown in that response that from a muslim point of view that he is not you can argue and say that I'm not a muslim and that's why I'm mentioning these facts to lead to read quran and then believing in islam and from that point u'll adopt to the same point of view.

I never said that you're not scientific all what I said that this point about goblins aliens. ....etc is not but rather more philosophical that is all.

[The Grand Nudger]

-You- don't believe the christian scientists who make similar claims..why should -we- believe the muslim ones?

The reason why God has sent our Prophet was because of you.  You're continue changing the bible. You leave out what you want and you add what you want. Don't deny it. Now there are few real Christians. I would say 1%.

I'm not a christian........and in what way was this rant a response to the question you quoted?  Do -you- believe the christian scientists when they say that science establishes the truth of jesus divinity?  If you don't...then why should -we- believe muslim scientists when they make the same claim regarding the quran?  Do you understand my question? I'm asking you why you think that anyone else would find something -that you don't find convincing yourself- the least bit persuasive.

[huss88ein]

-You- don't believe the christian scientists who make similar claims..why should -we- believe the muslim ones?

Simple cause the bible for us muslims is also the word of god but manipulated and thats why if you put it to the test you'll find hundreds of controversial facts.

[The Grand Nudger]

You both seem to be having comprehension issues.  I'll chalk it up to cultural disconnects and rephrase.  You both understand that there are christian scientists who also make these "miracle of the bible/quran" claims, yes?  I gather that you don't believe their claims....(or you'd be christians).  If it doesn't convince you, then why would it convince me?  If it doesn't convince you when christians do it...why would it convince you when muslims do it?

[JesusHChrist]

Another example
Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur'an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:And We also sent down  iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)

The word "anzalna," translated as "sent down" and used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a figurative meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But, when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky," as in the case of rain and Sun rays, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Because, modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the iron found in our world has come from giant stars in outer space.38

Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova."

You get some things right and others, are way off.

Heavy elements are created in the interior of other stars and propagated throughout the universe during a nova/supernova event. That part is true. However, an excess of heavy elements is not the cause for a star to explode. A supernova happens due to gravitational collapse. A quick google search would provide all the details.

More importantly, iron was not "sent down" from the sky. There is no concept of "sky" in space. There is only space.

All of the iron in the earth was *already here*. Material around the sun coalesced into the planets of the solar system. There was never a raining down of iron on the earth, unless you count the minuscule quantities from meteors. 

A far away star (probably multiple stars) went Boom, spewing material out into space. Some of that material and material from other sources, came together due to gravitational attraction, and formed the solar system.

Another argument Dead on Arrival.

And these are the best examples?

[Angrboda]

I must confess that I find the halocline example interesting. I don't doubt that it could have been known by observation before Mo's time, but it's still impressive.

[robvalue]

Even if Allah is real:

1) It punishes people for not submitting to it. That makes it a dick unworthy of my attention.

2) It has no noticeable effect on reality.

So I feel pretty safe ignoring the fantastical claims of Islam, whether they are true or not.

As it happens, the exact same argument works against Christianity as well. And point 2 applies to every religion.

My friend let me insist that your argument is good and much better than others .
As for the debate being pointless as claimed by other members it never is at least whether we r convinced in another point of view or part of it or not at all we are still learning alot and that's the whole point.

For your claims about if anything seems miraculous it hasn't have to be as the source is claiming I agree to that but by series of investigations and elimination process you can arrive to the truth and that's what I did , any scientific fact or historical or ethical or concerning society if isolated and studied alone in quran it wouldn't mean alot as I said before these are just signs , but if u study the whole thing as an entity you'll find that it's miraculous thats kind of my point.

So if you've studied facts Mentioned before they are just as guidelines.

As for Allah being cruel I believe we talked about that before and I've shown in that response that from a muslim point of view that he is not you can argue and say that I'm not a muslim and that's why I'm mentioning these facts to lead to read quran and then believing in islam and from that point u'll adopt to the same point of view.

I never said that you're not scientific all what I said that this point about goblins aliens. ....etc is not but rather more philosophical that is all.

Well, I appreciate you taking my position seriously, thank you

[The Grand Nudger]

All the knowledge required to build a steam engine was present in a single greek work, the knowledge of one man.  Hero.  Thousands of years ago....... I wouldn't say that this (or the bit that -might- be a misapprehension of clines) isn't impressive, but it's pretty common at the same time.  We would expect islam to have retained a great deal of greek science (the qurans opining upon biology is word for word Galen, wrong where Galen is wrong - right where he's right - for example).  I'm surprised that we don't find steam engines in the quran, to be honest.  The ummah engaged in a -massive- campaign of literary preservation. This is a bloc that held the torch of civilization in the region (assimilating more than just greek thought...assimilating -all- thought) - finding that they knew things shouldn't be any more impressive to us than finding that the greeks or romans did. We should expect it, and it goes to show how little we remember that particular point in history (and how little we credit what was once a great civilization home to great minds) to be particularly impressed by such things. Whatever the regions might have devolved into today doesn't change the fact that they were once a global powerhouse - and not for being dummies.

[aishatbh95]

You both seem to be having comprehension issues.  I'll chalk it up to cultural disconnects and rephrase.  You both understand that there are christian scientists who also make these "miracle of the bible/quran" claims, yes?  I gather that you don't believe their claims....(or you'd be christians).  If it doesn't convince you, then why would it convince me?  If it doesn't convince you when christians do it...why would it convince you when muslims do it?

I don't know any christian scientists. I must first understand it and they should try to convince me . But there is not much difference between Christians and Muslims. I would like to read the Bible , but is it possible to find an authentic bible?

[The Grand Nudger]

No more or less possible than it is to find an authentic quran.  No, there isn't much of a difference.  I keep telling them that, but they don't believe me, lol.  

So, let me get this straight, you're convinced (or hoping to convince) by muslim scientists, but never went to the trouble to see if there was a dissenting opinion in that science, or whether competing faiths made similar claims using the same science?  That's awfully lazy of you, it's almost as though you weren't searching for answers so much as searching for reinforcement......did you just stop with the first article containing the term "allah" and call it a day?

You expect us to investigate -what you have not-......? Why would we or should we, if you haven't, and don't see the responsibility as your own? Or, would you prefer that we don't investigate, simply stop at the first muslim port of call...as you've done?