The real message of Islam.

[robvalue]

Atlas: you have to be kidding me. It's believable that a human existed. It's believable he had sex with children. It's not believable he cut the moon in half.

If you can't understand that, there's really no point talking anymore about anything.

[ReptilianPeon]

Splitting of the moon is mentioned in the Quran so you have to believe it happened. It's not a Hadith thing. It's preposterous. Why is there no record of the moon being split? Surely when people or machines went to the moon they'd have found evidence that it was split.

[WinterHold]

Why is it remotely believable ? because your dead friend "Bukhari" said so ?
Make Bukhari appear in front of me ! or better : Aisha ! I want to hear it from her tongue.

This is too funny........Atlas, do you realise how unbelievably stupid this argument is?

I tell you what mate, the Q'uran, why is it remotely believable?  Because your dead friend "Muhammad" said so? 

Make Allah appear in front of me!  Or better : Muhammad, hellfire be upon him! I want to hear it from his tongue.


Utterly fucking ridiculous, all of it.

My faith in the Quran is based on my logic, in other words the "evidence" was never there.
I've been argueing for years here, that the source of belief is that logic. The book is logical; thus I believe in it.

Unlike an atheist, who want an evidence on every tiny thing..yet, negates his/her own rule when they want to criticize..

Aaaah the contradictions..

robvalue

Okay, another example, this Hadith says that the prophet was nice to Jews :

http://sunnah.com/adab/26/1

MrNoMorePropaganda

The Quranic verse never said anything about the moon crack being in Mohammed's time, rather, other verses proves he didn't have any miracle :

Sura 6
( 35 )   And if their evasion is difficult for you, then if you are able to seek a tunnel into the earth or a stairway into the sky to bring them a sign, [then do so]. But if Allah had willed, He would have united them upon guidance. So never be of the ignorant.

[ReptilianPeon]

Some say the moon will split when the Day of Judgement comes, others may say it was an optical illusion and, others still, take Muhammad splitting the moon as a literal event that has already happened. There is no consensus amoungst believers. You have people like DawahMan who try to argue that the Chinese saw that Muhammad did split the moon (and I believe I linked to that Facebook post previously on Atheist Forums) but he's not the only one. For example, here we see people misrepresenting a photograph of the moon, and claiming the moon has been split.

[Cyberman]

The Moon satisfies the burden of proof of its existence. Why do you have to depend on logical contortions and faith?

[robvalue]

What's him being nice to the Jews got to do with anything?

Are you trying to balance out him being a child fucker?

Now, I don't judge him by today's standards because that is pointless. Back then it was probably acceptable.

I don't actually commit to believing anything written in any of the Quran or hadiths, I'm merely commenting that some things are believable and some aren't. It seems you don't have such a distinction and will believe anything it says.

[ReptilianPeon]

There are much more effective arguments against Muhammad than saying he was a pedophile, in my opinion. I don't like using that argument because all it will do is trigger a negative emotional response. For sure, Muhammad did many things that today we find unacceptable. I'd rather talk about slavery personally, if I was going to attack Muhammad as an individual.

[robvalue]

I agree. I don't consider it an argument, it's just funny. He may well never have existed, he could be another fictional construct. Screwing children doesn't make him not magic. Common sense and caring about reality and evidence makes him not magic.

I wasn't using it as an argument, just stating that it's written in their propaganda and as you said, Atlas blew a gasket. I don't know why, I didn't write that shit.

It is an argument against bullshit objective morality claims, though.

[ReptilianPeon]

Muhammad was a pedophile, yes, I agree, but if one wants to have an intelligent discussion with believers, it is suggested that they not use that argument, it's not me saying this from experience, because some apostates tell fellow Atheists not to use that argument. Heina Dadabhoy mentions this in an interview she did with Matt Dillahunty that it's not a good argument to use, if I remember rightly.

Edit: At 14:13 she is asked "Are there any arguments you wish Atheists would stop using?" and she mentions she is writing a book on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwr4diHKY-0

[robvalue]

Sure. I wouldn't use it as an argument, unless they start ranting about objective morality. Then I've got them banged to rights.

The only question I need is, "Why should I care about any of this?"

The nearest thing I've received to an answer is, "You'll be sorry if you don't."