Atheists becoming less unpopular?

[Jackie]

[Jehanne]

[Pat Mustard]

I wouldn't have a problem voting for anyone on the list except for maybe the socialist, depending on what exactly was meant by that. It kinda doesn't fit in with the rest of what was on the list, because it is itself a political stance.

There can be Mormons, Muslims, Atheists, etc, who share similar political views as myself. Tibs, for example, has a lot of the same political views as myself and he's an atheist. I'd vote for his ass.

Why not the socialist?

Socialism (other then the soviet model) is about fairness, working for the common good and equality, what's so wrong with that?

An example of a socialist institution is the British National Health Service which runs of universal tax  (National Insurance) and gives universal free medical treatment at point of use.

It turns out that it is also cheaper for a nation to do its health this way

In the past few years my eldest son has had metal work put in his arm, my middle son had an operation to realign a broken bone and my mother had lengthy treatment for breast cancer all at no expense.

This is socialism in action and its great.

The problem with the Soviet model was that it paid all too much attention to the dictatorship and all too little to the proletariat. Capitalism engages in the same type of problem from the other end, paying too much attention to the system and not enough on the people.

[downbeatplumb]

Why not the socialist?

Socialism (other then the soviet model) is about fairness, working for the common good and equality, what's so wrong with that?

An example of a socialist institution is the British National Health Service which runs of universal tax  (National Insurance) and gives universal free medical treatment at point of use.

It turns out that it is also cheaper for a nation to do its health this way

In the past few years my eldest son has had metal work put in his arm, my middle son had an operation to realign a broken bone and my mother had lengthy treatment for breast cancer all at no expense.

This is socialism in action and its great.

The problem with the Soviet model was that it paid all too much attention to the dictatorship and all too little to the proletariat. Capitalism engages in the same type of problem from the other end, paying too much attention to the system and not enough on the people.

I did say other than the soviet model. Its given socialism a bad name when really its about social justice.

[Neo-Scholastic]

The problem with the Soviet model was that it paid all too much attention to the dictatorship and all too little to the proletariat. Capitalism engages in the same type of problem from the other end, paying too much attention to the system and not enough on the people.

I did say other than the soviet model. Its given socialism a bad name when really its about social justice.

Venezuela isn't doing so well. It seems that outside of Europe socialism tends to devolve very quickly. And in those countries the popular support for socialism doesn't ever seem to translate into a more just society. Quite often the opposite. Why that should be is a matter of debate. At least in the case of the Nordic countries their generous social programs rely heavily on exporting natural resources like oil more than a dynamic economy and responsive markets.

[Jehanne]

I did say other than the soviet model. Its given socialism a bad name when really its about social justice.

Venezuela isn't doing so well. It seems that outside of Europe socialism tends to devolve very quickly. And in those countries the popular support for socialism doesn't ever seem to translate into a more just society. Quite often the opposite. Why that should be is a matter of debate. At least in the case of the Nordic countries their generous social programs rely heavily on exporting natural resources like oil more than a dynamic economy and responsive markets.

Capitalism is destroying the World; you can keep your head in a box, or in the sand, or anywhere else that you want; a capitalistic society, such as the US, will end all mammalian life on this World -- that's a scientific fact, as sure as the "Earth moves".  And, so, what's the alternatives?  Capitalism is dead (as it will lead to a dead World, which means no more capitalism), and so, we are basically left with socialism or communism, and I think that the choice between those two is as clear as choosing spring water versus sewer water.

[The Grand Nudger]

@Jeh

Do you see much of a future for social democracies that utilize capitalism as a tool in order to achieve directives of state or within the confines of what is not directly and explicitly contradictory to party doctrine?  Say, China, for example?

Personally, I'd love to see the world make a hard turn towards socialism, but I don;t think it could do so without utilizing the private market..nor do I think that it would be the best version of itself if it forbade capitalism on principle because of a "scientific fact" that capitalism kills earthses and whatnot.

[Jehanne]

@Jeh

Do you see much of a future for social democracies that utilize capitalism as a tool in order to achieve directives of state or within the confines of what is not directly and explicitly contradictory to party doctrine?  Say, China, for example?

Personally, I'd love to see the world make a hard turn towards socialism, but I don;t think it could do so without utilizing the private market..nor do I think that it would be the best version of itself if it forbade capitalism on principle because of a "scientific fact" that capitalism kills earthses and whatnot.

The problem with capitalism is that it drives individuals, communities, companies and societies to the lowest common denominator.  For instance, Obama's climate-change policies and/or directives were a tiny step in the direction needed to save the Planet which The Donald has now completely undone.  When you have a Society whereby people put their short-term economic gain over their children or grandchildren ceasing to exist, then you have a Society that is built upon irrational premises, because death is rarely a rational choice for any human being who is at least in decent health.  Therefore, capitalism is irrational because it is destructive.

Socialism, on the other hand, will guarantee every human being, without exception (at least in those countries that have it), a minimal standard of living, hence, life, which will insure that no human being (children, especially) will have to endure any condition of abject poverty.  Socialism will allow real climate change practices to be implemented while guaranteeing, without exception, that every human being has a good home with food, water, heat, clothing, and a minimal standard of living beyond that, which I would include of having Internet and cell phone access for all.

[The Grand Nudger]

The problem with capitalism is that it drives individuals, communities, companies and societies to the lowest common denominator.  For instance, Obama's climate-change policies and/or directives were a tiny step in the direction needed to save the Planet which The Donald has now completely undone.  When you have a Society whereby people put their short-term economic gain over their children or grandchildren ceasing to exist, then you have a Society that is built upon irrational premises, because death is rarely a rational choice for any human being who is at least in decent health.  Therefore, capitalism is irrational because it is destructive.

I think you have a one sided and not entirely accurate view of capitalism.  Capitalism gone wrong, essentially. Well sure, if people align their interests (or have their interests aligned) with shitty things shitty things happen..but if we were chasing the dollar on a bunch of awesome things...wouldn't awesome things happen?

Socialism, on the other hand, will guarantee every human being, without exception (at least in those countries that have it), a minimal standard of living, hence, life, which will insure that no human being (children, especially) will have to endure any condition of abject poverty.  Socialism will allow real climate change practices to be implemented while guaranteeing, without exception, that every human being has a good home with food, water, heat, clothing, and a minimal standard of living beyond that, which I would include of having Internet and cell phone access for all.

How, how will it do that?  We know how capitalism can be employed to provide some of those things to some people...it's effectiveness is variable from place to place, time to time, and even within those places and times who has what is not uniform...but we can see that it does provide, and how.

How does socialism, in your view, provide those goods and services? I -also- think that all of those things should be available to all people, I think that capitalism is a good way to acquire the resources required to make it happen. People want more than they need. So long as what people want is monetized the proceeds can go, in whatever portion we accept, to what we need. So long as it's privately monetized, the state doesn't have to micromanage each process, it can focus on the shit they don't feel should be privately monetized.

[pocaracas]