Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?

[possibletarian]

That does not answer my question I have of course considered if people are hearing god, but as an ex believer and having had that experience, and then realised it is in fact not from a god (of any type).
It was when i began to question it's truth (rather than just accepting it) that i realised it was all clever manipulation happening in my head. again I ask how have you tested it's truth ?

 I absolutely answered your questions, it's not my fault you want accept the answers, that's on you, period. You were never a believer, just a pretender, even to yourself, delusional might fit what you were, certainly not a Christian. I told you in the above bold you will not receive a different answer because I've given you the truth. I know you would rather hear a lie, and the scriptures tell us that people like you would rather hear a lie than the truth because a lie will pacify the ungodly. I refuse to pacify your unbelief.

GC

Funny you use the word deluded that's pretty much what I became to think of believers, and yes as a believer I was deluded, and again you don't answer my question.
I'm not interested in lies, I'm interested in what can be proven to be true, why do you think it's the truth, I mean beyond an assertion ?
And what measures have you taken to prove it's truth? If it's something you simply believe, or believe simply, then say so.

[Godscreated]

 I absolutely answered your questions, it's not my fault you want accept the answers, that's on you, period. You were never a believer, just a pretender, even to yourself, delusional might fit what you were, certainly not a Christian. I told you in the above bold you will not receive a different answer because I've given you the truth. I know you would rather hear a lie, and the scriptures tell us that people like you would rather hear a lie than the truth because a lie will pacify the ungodly. I refuse to pacify your unbelief.

GC

Funny you use the word deluded  that's pretty much what I became to think of believers, and yes as a believer I was deluded,  and again you don't answer my question.
I'm not interested in lies, I'm interested in what can be proven to be true, why do you think it's the truth, I mean beyond an assertion ?
And what measures have you taken to prove it's truth? If it's something you simply believe, or believe simply,  then say so.

 I live in a relationship with God and I see Him working in and through my life. The proof is for me not you, and you will most likely never get the kinda' proof you want because God deals with us through faith. Abraham was called righteous by God because he trust what God told him (faith). This is what God asks of us and then if we desire that deeper relationship with Him he will reveal truths to us that will only make sense to those who have trusted Him. Your rejection of Christ has left you outside in the cold with no understanding and until you decide to trust God through faith you will remain outside. Abraham trusted God in many things without question and was rewarded greatly all God ask you to do is trust in Jesus and you will receive a reward greater than anyone can imagine. Like I've said many time on this forum, first faith then belief and then knowledge, it's God's promise to His people.

GC

[Harry Nevis]

Funny you use the word deluded  that's pretty much what I became to think of believers, and yes as a believer I was deluded,  and again you don't answer my question.
I'm not interested in lies, I'm interested in what can be proven to be true, why do you think it's the truth, I mean beyond an assertion ?
And what measures have you taken to prove it's truth? If it's something you simply believe, or believe simply,  then say so.

 I live in a relationship with God and I see Him working in and through my life. The proof is for me not you, and you will most likely never get the kinda' proof you want because God deals with us through faith. Abraham was called righteous by God because he trust what God told him (faith). This is what God asks of us and then if we desire that deeper relationship with Him he will reveal truths to us that will only make sense to those who have trusted Him. Your rejection of Christ has left you outside in the cold with no understanding and until you decide to trust God through faith you will remain outside. Abraham trusted God in many things without question and was rewarded greatly all God ask you to do is trust in Jesus and you will receive a reward greater than anyone can imagine. Like I've said many time on this forum, first faith then belief and then knowledge, it's God's promise to His people.

GC

How many words can GC redefine? there's righteous, proof, reject, relationship...I probably missed a couple.

I can imagine vastly great rewards. But I won't make myself believe a load of crap to get them. Some of us have standards.

[possibletarian]

Funny you use the word deluded  that's pretty much what I became to think of believers, and yes as a believer I was deluded,  and again you don't answer my question.
I'm not interested in lies, I'm interested in what can be proven to be true, why do you think it's the truth, I mean beyond an assertion ?
And what measures have you taken to prove it's truth? If it's something you simply believe, or believe simply,  then say so.

 I live in a relationship with God and I see Him working in and through my life. The proof is for me not you, and you will most likely never get the kinda' proof you want because God deals with us through faith. Abraham was called righteous by God because he trust what God told him (faith). This is what God asks of us and then if we desire that deeper relationship with Him he will reveal truths to us that will only make sense to those who have trusted Him. Your rejection of Christ has left you outside in the cold with no understanding and until you decide to trust God through faith you will remain outside. Abraham trusted God in many things without question and was rewarded greatly all God ask you to do is trust in Jesus and you will receive a reward greater than anyone can imagine. Like I've said many time on this forum, first faith then belief and then knowledge, it's God's promise to His people.

GC

Now here is the thing GC.
The replies you gave above are almost exactly what i would have said to someone like me when I was a Christian (minus the hellfire and brimstone of your previous posts). I used to really believe that people 'had no understanding' and only by the spirit of god could anyone understand, and any ex-Christians had never been real Christians etc..etc... But really that is just a religions way of explaining why people realise the untruth of the ahem.. truth, and all cults do it also.

Bottom line though is that none of it is true, it is as made up as any other religion, cult, philosophy.. you name it.  I know you are genuine in your belief, of that I had no doubt. But unless you can give a reason for it's truth other than you believe it to be so, then don't be surprised if others take it with a pinch of salt.

[Edwardo Piet]

Seriously.  How was it even a meaningful sacrifice?  How was it a sacrifice at all?  God sent Jesus to us, and then got him right back.  

#LFC'sProfoundThoughtsCourtesyofWine  🍷

Not meaningful?! Are you having a laugh! Of course it's meaningful!

Are you telling me you seriously don't see the moral behind the following story and the depth of this very profound sacrifice?

God uses his invisible absence of a penis to impregnate a virgin girl who was somewhat older than Mohammad's bride, Joseph gets jealous but gets told to fuck off, the virgin girl gives birth to God's son who turns out to also be himself. April Fools! Then he himself, who is also the son (and father) of himself, turns out to be a zombie Jew who loves to contradict himself, who then complains to his daddy, who is also himself, for forsaking himself, and then he fake-dies after being nailed to some large pieces of wood, which happened because of a conspiracy started by Judas who God who is also Jesus planned to have betray him in the first place, and while on these bits of woods our aforementioned questionably lovable zombie Jew makes fake screaming sounds because it doesn't really hurt because he's actually a deity, and the blood he bleeds is actually red wine somehow, I guess he's a gigantic alcoholic  (don't ask me why his skin doesn't look like it's made of crackers), and then he comes back because he can't die because he's a zombie, and then he jumps into heaven and whispers under his breath "You guys think I'm coming back but I'm totally not! So suck it suckers! Suck my crackery penis and the red wine blood that runs through it when I get a boner over big breasted angels!"

Makes perfect sense, yeah? Don't deny it!

---

If a God creates a game, the created would logically do well to play it.

No we wouldn't. It sounds like it has utterly shit gameplay if the game involved means professing belief in an imaginary friend and pretend-hoping to go to a heaven that I know doesn't exist. What utterly shit gameplay. I'd take Tetris over that any day.

---

Setting aside death by crucifixion, what was it like for an omniscient mind to physically bear all the sins of mankind past, present, and future all at the same time? When you think about it, God willing endured something unimaginable to us that would change him (by having the experience) in a less than positive way.

Well if it has an omniscient mind, it would have known what to expect wouldn't it?

Wow. Sounds to me like God is a fucking idiot.

---

No, if you're a sinner and acknowledge it it's a really great system.

Well, the chances of me doing that are zero.

Literally.  I intend to go to my grave without ever falling into that ridiculous mindset.

No intention required for me. I couldn't believe in that shit if my life literally depended on it. It would be like someone pointing a loaded gun at my head and saying "Believe Santa Claus is real!" . . . I could lie just to stop myself getting shot, but I couldn't actually believe Santa Claus is real, no matter how much my life depends on it.

It takes a highly indoctrinated and/or highly illogical mind to believe in a god.

[possibletarian]

It takes a highly indoctrinated and/or highly illogical mind to believe in a god.

And that says it all, personally I would go for indoctrinated, you highlight a problem with logic though if we are taught that it is indeed logical to conclude a god from what we see around us, then that's how we believe logic works.

So logic with indoctrination (subjective logic) leads to that ludicrous philosophical arguments we hear that theists say point to a god, logic is not the independent methodology we sometimes believe it to be. That is why science is the best way to discern what is and is not real, it simply cannot be fooled in the same way, and even when wrong can be corrected without loosing validity of the method.

[Godscreated]

 I live in a relationship with God and I see Him working in and through my life. The proof is for me not you, and you will most likely never get the kinda' proof you want because God deals with us through faith. Abraham was called righteous by God because he trust what God told him (faith). This is what God asks of us and then if we desire that deeper relationship with Him he will reveal truths to us that will only make sense to those who have trusted Him. Your rejection of Christ has left you outside in the cold with no understanding and until you decide to trust God through faith you will remain outside. Abraham trusted God in many things without question and was rewarded greatly all God ask you to do is trust in Jesus and you will receive a reward greater than anyone can imagine. Like I've said many time on this forum, first faith then belief and then knowledge, it's God's promise to His people.

GC

Now here is the thing GC.
The replies you gave above are almost exactly what i would have said to someone like me when I was a Christian (minus the hellfire and brimstone of your previous posts). I used to really believe that people 'had no understanding' and only by the spirit of god could anyone understand, and any ex-Christians had never been real Christians etc..etc... But really that is just a religions way of explaining why people realise the untruth of the ahem.. truth, and all cults do it also.

Bottom line though is that none of it is true, it is as made up as any other religion, cult, philosophy.. you name it.  I know you are genuine in your belief, of that I had no doubt. But unless you can give a reason for it's truth other than you believe it to be so, then don't be surprised if others take it with a pinch of salt.

 It's not my responsibility to prove God to anyone, I'm called to live a life that is holy (different and separate from the world). I'm to tell others why I believe what I do and it is for them to respond to God of their own free choice.

 You believe none of what I believe is true yet you can't begin to prove what I believe is wrong. Just because other religions and cults do certain things and that you have an opinion that what I believe is wrong makes none of what you say true.

 There have been preachers in the pulpit preaching for years and one day they actually hear what they are saying and realize they have never been saved. A relationship with God is much more than a mind thing, it's actually a spiritual awakening that results in a belief so deep that one will not deny it.

GC

[possibletarian]

Now here is the thing GC.
The replies you gave above are almost exactly what i would have said to someone like me when I was a Christian (minus the hellfire and brimstone of your previous posts). I used to really believe that people 'had no understanding' and only by the spirit of god could anyone understand, and any ex-Christians had never been real Christians etc..etc... But really that is just a religions way of explaining why people realise the untruth of the ahem.. truth, and all cults do it also.

Bottom line though is that none of it is true, it is as made up as any other religion, cult, philosophy.. you name it.  I know you are genuine in your belief, of that I had no doubt. But unless you can give a reason for it's truth other than you believe it to be so, then don't be surprised if others take it with a pinch of salt.

 It's not my responsibility to prove God to anyone, I'm called to live a life that is holy (different and separate from the world). I'm to tell others why I believe what I do and it is for them to respond to God of their own free choice.

 You believe none of what I believe is true yet you can't begin to prove what I believe is wrong. Just because other religions and cults do certain things and that you have an opinion that what I believe is wrong makes none of what you say true.

 There have been preachers in the pulpit preaching for years and one day they actually hear what they are saying and realize they have never been saved. A relationship with God is much more than a mind thing, it's actually a spiritual awakening that results in a belief so deep that one will not deny it.

GC

Yup pretty much what I would have said as a Christian. And I believed I had that spiritual awakening and a belief so deep no one did deny it in me.
Everything you are saying I believed with a passion once.
But truth is, it's false.