What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?

[The Grand Nudger]

Silver cord?  Ridiculous.  It's an invisible red thread.

[He lives]

Mucking about with NDEs and OOBEs is CLEARLY forbidden.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

There are limitations to that scripture. Do you speak to the dead (Jesus)? Did Jesus speak with the dead:

(New Testament | Mark 9:4)

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Is there an NDE mentioned in the Bible?:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:2 - 4)

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

NDEs are not about fortune telling, casting spells, witchcraft, sorcery, mediums, or denying God or the Holy Ghost. Do you listen to the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost is a spirit.

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Now the Pam Reynolds story has lost all coherence. It was an OBE that had nothing to do with her brain death-- or it did have something to do with it??--it could have happened either way?? What exactly does her simulated brain death have to with it it, then?

So far, this isn't very convincing.

NDE skeptics do not believe that it is possible for a person to have any perception when the brain is clinically dead. However Pam was able to describe the procedure and the instruments that were used while she was clinically brain dead.

[drfuzzy]

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Mucking about with NDEs and OOBEs is CLEARLY forbidden.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

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There are limitations to that scripture. Do you speak to the dead (Jesus)? Did Jesus speak with the dead:

(New Testament | Mark 9:4)

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Is there an NDE mentioned in the Bible?:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:2 - 4)

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

NDEs are not about fortune telling, casting spells, witchcraft, sorcery, mediums, or denying God or the Holy Ghost. Do you listen to the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost is a spirit.

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Now the Pam Reynolds story has lost all coherence. It was an OBE that had nothing to do with her brain death-- or it did have something to do with it??--it could have happened either way?? What exactly does her simulated brain death have to with it it, then?

So far, this isn't very convincing.

NDE skeptics do not believe that it is possible for a person to have any perception when the brain is clinically dead. However Pam was able to describe the procedure and the instruments that were used while she was clinically brain dead.

And, of course, none of it matters, even if we have fun dissecting your silly little fantasy NDE tales, your rejection of evolution, or anything else you present.  There simply isn't enough proof for NDE's, just as there simply isn't enough proof that a god exists.   
    You cling to NDE's and your silly little book of fables to "prove" that you are RIGHT and that your god, jeebus, holy caspar, and your whole circus of imaginary friends are REAL.  I hold that there are no non-corporeal entities of any stripe, and will hold that position until real proof is given.  NDE's clearly do not qualify, since you (and all the people who have run real research studies on the phenomenon) are incapable of providing any conclusive results.

[vorlon13]

If someone is having a vision the presumption would have to be it is of Satan.

And even if a 'vison' were deemed 'of God' the New Testament clearly states neither the Old nor New Testament is to be altered one jot or tittle. So it is EXTREMELY safe to disregard ALL visions. Everything one needs to know is ALREADY in the Bible (ALL Scripture is suitable . . . ).

Damn, this is all Sunday School 101 stuff.

Am I the only one who went ??

[vorlon13]

For our visitors from Rio Linda:

Sunday School 101 is (or should be) all the important Bible/God/Jesus stuff that was DRILLED into your little head when you were in Sunday School. When you were a kid.

The question remains why so precious little of that vital instruction is still extant in the believer population.

[drfuzzy]

If someone is having a vision the presumption would have to be it is of Satan.

And even if a 'vison' were deemed 'of God' the New Testament clearly states neither the Old nor New Testament is to be altered one jot or tittle.  So it is EXTREMELY safe to disregard ALL visions.  Everything one needs to know is ALREADY in the Bible (ALL Scripture is suitable . . . ).

Damn, this is all Sunday School 101 stuff.

Am I the  only one who went ??

Oh heck yeah I went.  Memorized the whole damn book.  But if you post verses to these preachers they just change the interpretation, move the goalposts, say that you're interpreting it wrong, and post MORE from that silly book.  They seem to think that posting verses will convert us.  (LOL)

[vorlon13]

LOL, you're correct, posting Bible verses does NOT change their opinions.

Even the plainly worded, black and white ones.

[Angrboda]

I looked at the illustration. OBE started at 8:40 a. m., but there is no indication when it ended. She stated it ended when her heart was restarted.

You mean she didn't remember anything between the time of her NDE and the time of her heart being restarted? Oh say it isn't so! It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that she was under anesthesia and basically dead, could it? The parts of her NDE which can be correlated with events in the operating room clearly occurred while she was fully conscious.

[He lives]

I looked at the illustration. OBE started at 8:40 a. m., but there is no indication when it ended. She stated it ended when her heart was restarted.

You mean she didn't remember anything between the time of her NDE and the time of her heart being restarted?  Oh say it isn't so!  It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that she was under anesthesia and basically dead, could it?  The parts of her NDE which can be correlated with events in the operating room clearly occurred while she was fully conscious.

Are you saying she was fully conscious during  the entire operation? Her eyes were taped shut and she was still able to describe surgical instruments and the surgical procedures used on her.

More at:

https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead.html

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If someone is having a vision the presumption would have to be it is of Satan.

And even if a 'vison' were deemed 'of God' the New Testament clearly states neither the Old nor New Testament is to be altered one jot or tittle.  So it is EXTREMELY safe to disregard ALL visions.  Everything one needs to know is ALREADY in the Bible (ALL Scripture is suitable . . . ).

Damn, this is all Sunday School 101 stuff.

Am I the  only one who went ??

Apparently we went to different churches and had teachers teaching from different perspectives.

[drfuzzy]

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You mean she didn't remember anything between the time of her NDE and the time of her heart being restarted?  Oh say it isn't so!  It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that she was under anesthesia and basically dead, could it?  The parts of her NDE which can be correlated with events in the operating room clearly occurred while she was fully conscious.

---

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Are you saying she was fully conscious during  the entire operation? Her eyes were taped shut and she was still able to describe surgical instruments and the surgical procedures used on her.

More at:

https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead.html

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If someone is having a vision the presumption would have to be it is of Satan.

And even if a 'vison' were deemed 'of God' the New Testament clearly states neither the Old nor New Testament is to be altered one jot or tittle.  So it is EXTREMELY safe to disregard ALL visions.  Everything one needs to know is ALREADY in the Bible (ALL Scripture is suitable . . . ).

Damn, this is all Sunday School 101 stuff.

Am I the  only one who went ??

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Apparently we went to different churches and had teachers teaching from different perspectives.

Yeah.  Same book.  Thousands of different denominations.  Get 5 preachers from the SAME denomination and ask them about a passage, and you'll get 5 conflicting responses.  Interesting, that.  You would think, if some deity wrote a book and wanted people to follow it, that it would be a lot less confusing.  And you would think that if a deity was actually inspiring it's mouthpieces on earth, the inspiration for a passage would be the same for every preacher.  But no - for thousands of years, what we get is "we have it right and those guys over there aren't REAL xtians".