Question to theists

[Mystic]

LadyForCamus, what you ask is reasonable. I think a lot of proofs you've digested and it's just a matter of time when one just clicks, then they all click.  This is my perception, and I wish you the best in this regard. But I don't know.

Just give it time, and don't put too much emotionally investment one way or the other,  just let the debate happen in your head like a neutral referee and see what comes out at the end.

[Angrboda]

LadyForCamus, what you ask is reasonable. I think a lot of proofs you've digested and it's just a matter of time when one just clicks, then they all click.  This is my perception, and I wish you the best in this regard. But I don't know.

Just give it time, and don't put too much emotionally investment one way or the other,  just let the debate happen in your head like a neutral referee and see what comes out at the end.

Hope springs eternal.

[LadyForCamus]

LadyForCamus, what you ask is reasonable. I think a lot of proofs you've digested and it's just a matter of time when one just clicks, then they all click.  This is my perception, and I wish you the best in this regard. But I don't know.

Just give it time, and don't put too much emotionally investment one way or the other,  just let the debate happen in your head like a neutral referee and see what comes out at the end.

While I appreciate your sincerity, no one has “proved” anything with regard to a god. What do you think it tells you when someone who openly admits they’d welcome the existence of a god still remains unconvinced, even after years of arguments from theists?

[Mystic]

LadyForCamus, what you ask is reasonable. I think a lot of proofs you've digested and it's just a matter of time when one just clicks, then they all click.  This is my perception, and I wish you the best in this regard. But I don't know.

Just give it time, and don't put too much emotionally investment one way or the other,  just let the debate happen in your head like a neutral referee and see what comes out at the end.

While I appreciate your sincerity, no one has “proved” anything with regard to a god. What do you think it tells you when someone who openly admits they’d welcome the existence of a god still remains unconvinced, even after years of arguments from theists?

Because it takes time to get out of irrational type error thinking, it doesn't happen right away.

[LadyForCamus]

While I appreciate your sincerity, no one has “proved” anything with regard to a god. What do you think it tells you when someone who openly admits they’d welcome the existence of a god still remains unconvinced, even after years of arguments from theists?

Because it takes time to get out of irrational type error thinking, it doesn't happen right away.

Believe me, MK.  Of the two of us, I am not the one engaging in irrational thinking.

[The Grand Nudger]

The demons gotcha, clearly.  

[Godscreated]

I see that you do not really wish that God exist

Oh, I do.  It’s difficult for you to fathom the idea that I don’t wish your specific god exists, isn’t it?

There is no other nor could there be no better, it's not just you but Christians alike that do not fully understand God. Christians have learned more about Him and understand Him better because they want to and He is teaching us. You want a god that you can make up in your own mind so it will fit what you want, and do not consider that your god wouldn't by necessity be right for others. That's why we can't choose God, He chooses us, that is those who are willing to be humble enough to be chosen. Your mind, my mind and everyone's minds are flawed and could never come up with a God who can satisfy all our needs, but we have one who will, all it takes is to listen to Him and for the life of me I do not see what it hurts to listen. You do not like the God of the Bible because you believe He demands to much of you and until you come to know Him you will always believe this because you have no understanding what it's like to live in relationship with Him.

 you think the Bible is circular because that's what you want to see. no one has ever shown me anything scripture says that is circular reasoning.

The Bible is used by Christians as the evidence for its claims about god, which is absolutely circular. I am going to need a hell of a lot more than a book full of unevidenced, supernatural assertions in order to be convinced.

Exactly where else are we to get evidence, the Bible is where God reveals himself to man, after we come to know Him through Christ He will reveal himself in other ways but even those will come from scripture. This is the way He wants things to be for now and who am I to argue with the One who gave His life to save me from eternal separation. If you need more then you need to ask God, not demand but ask sincerely. However if you were to look closer at what the scriptures actually reveal you might just see God. No one can make you believe in God and He is the only one, in actuality there is no other to choose from, He is it. He is there in His word waiting if you would look for Him. 

If stories about God want convince you then what will because God isn't going to open up heaven and show himself to you in a physical way, He does how ever for in a spiritual way for those who seek Him with an open heart.

If he really wanted me to believe he would.

No He would not, he knows that you do not require that type of proof, if you did He would have done so long ago. You used the word believe/faith and if God were to open up heaven and show himself to you then there would be no place for belief, now would there. One day in the future God is going to open up the heavens and His angels will accompany God the Son and then you will see,if you are alive at the time, but it will be to late for the unbelieving.

When all you do is look for things to criticize in the scriptures that is all you will find and you find those things because you can not see the finely woven tapestry which the scriptures are, they are all enter connected and only trust in God will reveal the truths written on this fine tapestry.

The Bible is morally reprehensible, and a narrative mess.  I don’t need to want to see that in order for it to be true.

Why are you and all atheist stuck in the OT, that is were God shows us that we have a need for a savior. I know there are things in the OT that sound horrible, but there is real truth in them, a truth you seem unwilling to search for. Believe me it took me several years and some questioning to God to see some of those truths in what seemed as if it were the most horrible of things. The scriptures are morally perfect when it come to God and who He actually is.

Like I said I can only point you in a direction, the rest would be up to you and God. Do you really believe you will lose something by searching? I'm not sure how anyone can believe they would lose anything by taking a look.

I’ve  read the Bible.  I was underwhelmed.  When someone presents a robust case with plenty evidence I’ll reconsider my stance.

 So you do not want faith to be a part of your life, you just can't trust, is this what I'm reading from you. I can tell you this faith is worth it's weight in gold so to speak because it will lead to a revelation of who God is and that He is real, you can have a life knowing that God is real and that He will do what He promises us. Dying without evidence is like living without faith, both will get you no where, but you can have the faith and evidence if you truly want them, but that's the problem for you, you don't want them because you believe to much is required of you, yet you forget what was required of God to have you to be one of His children. Yes when God created this world He knew that there would be something required of Him if He were to have us back, redeemed unto Him. So in that why shouldn't there be requirements for us, seems plenty fair to me and you should know that I believe it's fair because I wanted to be redeemed unto my creator. I'm sad that you feel the way you do and I'm sad because I know you do not have to, I know the God of the Bible and I'm sure I do, else I wouldn't be here. Please remember this about all Christians who come here and stay for awhile, there is nothing in this for us outside of our relationship with Christ, you might find that a strange thing to hear but it's true but then you also do not understand what it's like to have that personal relationship with Him.

GC

[robvalue]

The demons gotcha, clearly.  

Right, are we irrational or under duress from demons? If it's the latter, then no amount of introspection is going to help. We just have to wait until the demons get bored or God decides to stop allowing demons to fuck with people.

[purplepurpose]

"God can be merciful and loving if don't provoke his wrath and listen to Him. Don't struggle, just bend over, you don't want things go the hard way, don't you?".

[Drich]

God is not for everyone. God did what He did so he could have His Children make a choice to come home. "we" according to Christ are not all God's children. Jesus in a parable likened God's children as a crop of wheat he had sown in a field and that night his enemy went behind him and sown "Tares." which looks exactly like wheat until it ripens and instead of a golden brown head of wheat the tare yield a black head of seeds that are not edible.

So in the same field/planet we have wheat/God's seed and weeds/seed of satan growing and working together. Jesus said wait to the harvest before these two are seperated. the harvest being after the end of days/final judgement.

For those who love God the answer is clear in that we must seek the atonement offered so we can be with God forever.

Those who hate God/serve a different master will not see the opportunity God has provided.

Why do you want to be with God forever, If we put aside idea about hell?

Love.

Every been loved by a really awesome parent who could help you grown and offer you anything to reach your fullest potential?

I know I sould like a nutter when I say I got to experience that love only for a moment, but it was so... complete perfect warm and inviting, I felt like I could never want to leave it...

Love is the only legit reason to want to be with God. again a child who loves his parents given the oppertunity to reunite needs no other reason.. Granted if God is not your father then you will never see a need to return.

---

God is not for everyone. God did what He did so he could have His Children make a choice to come home. "we" according to Christ are not all God's children. Jesus in a parable likened God's children as a crop of wheat he had sown in a field and that night his enemy went behind him and sown "Tares." which looks exactly like wheat until it ripens and instead of a golden brown head of wheat the tare yield a black head of seeds that are not edible.

So in the same field/planet we have wheat/God's seed and weeds/seed of satan growing and working together. Jesus said wait to the harvest before these two are seperated. the harvest being after the end of days/final judgement.

For those who love God the answer is clear in that we must seek the atonement offered so we can be with God forever.

Those who hate God/serve a different master will not see the opportunity God has provided.

As an aside, I wonder how many different metaphors and similes the Bible used to express essentially the same idea: "Our team good; others bad".

not good or bad those are the devils terms.

The devil controls what is good or bad.

God seeks righteousness from us not 'morality.' Righteousness is a standard that never changes. what is righteous will always be righteous, even if pop morality deems what was one good, now bad.

for instance it is unrighteous to kill a child/baby

however it is not only moral to kill a baby by pop moral standards, it is immoral to tell a woman she can kill her baby. All anyone need do to justify a child's death is to rename it a "fetus" (latin for baby) and pop morality says you can kill as many as you like for something as trivial as a job or the baby interferes with life plans.. These foolish reason would never change the unrighteous death.. It was an unrighteous and and is an unrighteous act.

Again remember this is not morality standard where one must be punished for an immoral act. so there potential attonement for such an act. actually for all acts there can be atonement.