Kobe Bryant dead from Helicopter crash

[Athene]

Athene:
 When talking about racism makes people angrier than actual racism.


Triggered as fuck....LOL

When your boo-hoos are treated as the horseshit that they are, so you scream out an even bigger boo-hoo.

Oh, there's boo-hooing going on over here, Trigger---trust me.
I simply wrote a truth that you can't bear to unpack. 

I leave you to your triggered tantrum, already in progress...lol

[Shell B]

I didn't stereotype anyone with that quote, Shell. Nor was I wasn't calling you out, specifically.

I didn't mean to intimate that you were. I'm just doubling down on a point that I'm trying to make with Huggy.

The quote simply illustrates how White Supremacy is perceived VS what it actually is. It is not simply a matter of a few Neo-Nazi screaming "We hate n**gers!" at a rally or other assorted "baddies" wearing their hatred on their sleeves.

It is systemic. 
A system of systems right here, today, in the Land of the Free that impact and shape millions of people's lives in countless horrific ways that most people are unaware of or simply do not wish to see.

And while the U.S. government is the architect of White Supremacy in this country, systemic racism could not persist without the majority of this nation's citizens toeing the line for it, pretending it's just a matter of a few bad apples and thus "not that bad", or that it doesn't exist at all.

That's the truth.

I actually disagree with that. Surprise, surprise. I think systemic racism persists not because the majority of Americans toe the line for it, but rather because it's so insidious at this point that most of us don't even notice it's there. To a lot of people, black people tend to make up a lot of the population of poorer areas just because "that's how it is." They don't realize it's the result of historical racism. Ignorance can be overcome. Sure, there's a few folk who are just okay with the remnants of white supremacy in this country, but I do truly believe they're in the minority, at least in my life.

Right now, the important thing for most white people to be doing is forcing voter equality, making gerrymandering impossible, fixing the racial inequity in courts and the prison system, and teaching our kids how to do these things. We can't just point to slavery in a classroom and call it done. I know there's a lot to be done, and it might seem hopeless to someone living it, but I think combating the "baddies" and ignorance will bring us a long way. We don't combat ignorance with fire and brimstone.

Anyway, my point is just that maybe Huggy's fighting with his own team here. Myself and others here may not be black, but that doesn't mean we're anti-black.

[Athene]

The quote simply illustrates how White Supremacy is perceived VS what it actually is. It is not simply a matter of a few Neo-Nazi screaming "We hate n**gers!" at a rally or other assorted "baddies" wearing their hatred on their sleeves.

It is systemic. 
A system of systems right here, today, in the Land of the Free that impact and shape millions of people's lives in countless horrific ways that most people are unaware of or simply do not wish to see.

And while the U.S. government is the architect of White Supremacy in this country, systemic racism could not persist without the majority of this nation's citizens toeing the line for it, pretending it's just a matter of a few bad apples and thus "not that bad", or that it doesn't exist at all.

That's the truth.

I actually disagree with that. Surprise, surprise. I think systemic racism persists not because the majority of Americans toe the line for it, but rather because it's so insidious at this point that most of us don't even notice it's there. To a lot of people, black people tend to make up a lot of the population of poorer areas just because "that's how it is." They don't realize it's the result of historical racism. Ignorance can be overcome. Sure, there's a few folk who are just okay with the remnants of white supremacy in this country, but I do truly believe they're in the minority, at least in my life.

Right now, the important thing for most white people to be doing is forcing voter equality, making gerrymandering impossible, fixing the racial inequity in courts and the prison system, and teaching our kids how to do these things. We can't just point to slavery in a classroom and call it done. I know there's a lot to be done, and it might seem hopeless to someone living it, but I think combating the "baddies" and ignorance will bring us a long way. We don't combat ignorance with fire and brimstone.

Anyway, my point is just that maybe Huggy's fighting with his own team here. Myself and others here may not be black, but that doesn't mean we're anti-black.

As Huggy pointed out earlier, the majority of White Americans voted for Trump. Like it or not, that speaks volumes as to just how far we've come. 
Lol...So far, that the majority of Whites wish to that ensure White Supremacy continues to reigns supreme in this country; no matter the cost to themselves.

As far as the Whites who didn't vote for Trump go: People can barely engage in a discussion about structural racism with the self-proclaimed I'm-Not-Racist ones without most of them blowing a goddamned brain gasket. Sure, there are plenty of liberals and egalitarians among them who will shake their heads and tsk tsk at all the appropriate moments; And they may express genuine disdain for blatant acts of racial violence or mistreatment. But most of them will invariably become defensive and take to derailing any substantive dialogue surrounding complex racial issues by crying or howling that being personally attacked, and vehemently castigating Blacks who attempt to cast light on such matter as victims, liars, and the "real" racists for talking about racism in any context, historical or otherwise, in an attempt to shut that shit down.

Call me crazy, but I think it's safe to say that most of these folks will never possess the desire to confront racial injustice beyond superficial measures, much less the will. There's no way that people who become that distressed in the face of having mere conversations about racial inequality, are going to go all in in disrupting the racial status quo in this country. They're much too vested in clinging to lie that such dreadful matters are "mostly behind us" as a nation--and quite likely, harbor significant fears as to what true equality might mean for them as topmost members of the racial hierarchy.
 
So yeah, we most definitely disagree. I think the number of White folks who sincerely want to see an end to systemic White Supremacy and are willing to work towards that goal are an extremely small minority; A fraction of a fraction of a fraction. A tip of the hat to those unicorns, for sure--But there aren't enough of them to imagine that there's some wealth of White support for racial justice in U.S.
Personally though, this doesn't make me feel hopeless about the future because more and more Black people are waking up to the realization that the only serious allies we have in this country is ourselves--and that if we wait on Uncle Sam, the goddamned Democrats, or collective White America to come around and aid us in seeking an end to the system of oppression that they created and/or benefit from, we can expect another 400 years of the same fuckshit. 

Though undoubtedly a sobering realization for some at first, it's actually a good thing because it makes the path forward much clearer.

[Athene]

Is that why the brothers can't swim?

Is that a yes?

Seriously though, Is that a yes?

Fine. I'll share some of the history behind that hilarious little notion, since you're so curious.
But I can almost guarantee that your triggered ass won't like it....









Wow. Thank God all that stuff is way, way, behind us and Blacks today have never had to live with that sort of thing.

Oh wait...





Remember: You ASKED. 

[LastPoet]

Is that why the brothers can't swim?

Is that a yes?

Seriously though, Is that a yes?

Fine. I'll share some of the history behind that hilarious little notion, since you're so curious.
But I can almost guarantee that your triggered ass won't like it....









Wow. Thank God all that stuff is way, way, behind us and Blacks today have never had to live with that sort of thing.

Oh wait...


Remember: You ASKED. 

:hehe:

(Snipped a video because the software only allows 3)

I know you will not understand anything of the lyrics but it talks all about swimming, partying etc, etc:





Those guys were a hit back in the day. Regarding the discussion, as I have said before, racism is a cultural thing in the US, not in Portugal. Surely there are racists, hidden, but they better remain so.

[Shell B]

As Huggy pointed out earlier, the majority of White Americans voted for Trump. Like it or not, that speaks volumes as to just how far we've come. 
Lol...So far, that the majority of Whites wish to that ensure White Supremacy continues to reigns supreme in this country; no matter the cost to themselves.

Is that even true? Did the majority of white people in this country vote for Trump?

As far as the Whites who didn't vote for Trump go: People can barely engage in a discussion about structural racism with the self-proclaimed I'm-Not-Racist ones without most of them blowing a goddamned brain gasket. Sure, there are plenty of liberals and egalitarians among them who will shake their heads and tsk tsk at all the appropriate moments; And they may express genuine disdain for blatant acts of racial violence or mistreatment. But most of them will invariably become defensive and take to derailing any substantive dialogue surrounding complex racial issues by crying or howling that being personally attacked, and vehemently castigating Blacks who attempt to cast light on such matter as victims, liars, and the "real" racists for talking about racism in any context, historical or otherwise, in an attempt to shut that shit down.

This sounds a whole lot to me like a refusal to believe that it's possible there are white people who aren't racist. Like, no matter what we do or say, you will never stop judging us for being white. Forgive me if that's a racially motivated position and I notice it. It's not that you're talking about racism. It's that you appear to lack any self-awareness when it comes to this topic.

You know, it's possible to have genuine disdain for all forms of racism AND be offended by diatribes like this one. You do know that it is possible for a black person to offend a white person and okay for a white person to say, "I'm uncomfortable that you stereotype me."

Call me crazy, but I think it's safe to say that most of these folks will never possess the desire to confront racial injustice beyond superficial measures, much less the will. There's no way that people who become that distressed in the face of having mere conversations about racial inequality, are going to go all in in disrupting the racial status quo in this country. They're much too vested in clinging to lie that such dreadful matters are "mostly behind us" as a nation--and quite likely, harbor significant fears as to what true equality might mean for them as topmost members of the racial hierarchy.

Crazy. I get that it probably comes from some deep-rooted shit that goes beyond both of us, but you think very little of white people and lump us all together. How do you know what the average white person is willing to do? You don't, and even if you do, you can't assume we're all the average white person.
 

Personally though, this doesn't make me feel hopeless about the future because more and more Black people are waking up to the realization that the only serious allies we have in this country is ourselves--and that if we wait on Uncle Sam, the goddamned Democrats, or collective White America to come around and aid us in seeking an end to the system of oppression that they created and/or benefit from, we can expect another 400 years of the same fuckshit. 

Though undoubtedly a sobering realization for some at first, it's actually a good thing because it makes the path forward much clearer.

Well, things will stay the way they are if we don't get a majority of people to work toward true equity, and black people aren't a majority, so maybe dust off that old chip on your shoulder and try to see past Trumpicans to the rest of us. Sure, I don't spend every waking moment campaigning for equality because I have a mortgage and a life, but you'd probably be surprised to find that I'm actually not afraid of equality or to talk about racial inequality. I'm not afraid to vote in minority interests. I'm not afraid of the big white money men, and I'm not afraid of White Supremacists. I really, really don't enjoy thinly-veiled disdain for white people any more than I enjoy it for black people, though. Man, the blanket statements are so rampant in these arguments. I don't know how you can't see it as stereotyping at the very least.

[Shell B]

I just want to follow up by saying I have no idea what it's like to be black in America, especially this America. We have loads of black-American literature from other eras to which we can turn, but right now you're living a new black reality. I know what I hear about police brutality, income inequality, housing inequality and a lot more, but I don't know what goes on in your mind when you see a white cop. I don't know what it's like to have a harder time finding housing, loans, etc. than white people in your same earning bracket. I'm not comparing being racially stereotyped as a white person to the institutional racism blacks in America face. I know you've got it worse. I don't walk away from this conversation and have to live the disparaging remarks I hear. I'm merely hoping we can all stop making assumptions about each other based on our race. Shit, for all I know, you could be Ivy-League educated and the only thing you know about racial discrimination you learned in a Black History class surrounded by white kids. None of us know each other, so why are we all pretending to understand each other's intent? Why are we always lumping each other in with this group or that group? It's silly. We're all idiots.

[EgoDeath]

Well, I am white, and I do say so. But that's not really the point. It's more incidental than anything. I mean, any of you, regardless of race, lol, can just look up Kobe's quote where he admitted that he understood that the interaction was not consensual on the girl's part. Meaning, in short, it wasn't consensual. All parties have to consent when it comes to sex. End of story. That's just sort of how that whole thing works, believe it or not. You being a victim of sexual assault in the past, if I'm not mistaken, I figured you'd be on the other side of this here, if there are even sides. This has nothing to do with me being white, or you being Puerto Rican, or someone else being a Danish transgender power lifter who collects stamps and really enjoys the band System of a Down.

So, while it's cute to just call me an entitled white asshole and not actually respond to any of my points with logical, well-thought out ideas, it doesn't actually lead to any sort of interesting or meaningful discussion. In fact, it totally leaves me to believe that the poster who put that image up (also, how are you seeing the pic and I'm not?) simply wanted to play the race card to shut me up. Trying to silence someone by saying "you're white and privileged so your opinion doesn't count" is just silly and a bit bully-ish. Granted, let me stop anyone before they try it, I'm not claiming to be a victim here, because I know everyone in the race to be woke loves to use that line any time a straight white male points out that someone else isn't fighting fair. It usually sounds like something like, "Oh, look at the poor white guy crying for being bullied! Boohoo!" No. I'm just pointing out that it's silly to play the race card and then no actually care enough to make  valid points about the topic at that hand.

It's akin to saying, you're white so your opinion doesn't count. Well, sorry to break it to ya: that's racist.

So, all of that being said... No, I cannot imagine, and never will be able to imagine, what it's like to be black in America. 90% of my friends are black. Three of my cousins are black. And I've dated more black girls than I can count on both hands. I've heard plenty of terrible stories. Horror stories. But I think it's simply so foreign to me that my brain cannot imagine what it would be like to be treated that way. At the end of the day, I simply do not wake up in the morning and think about the color of my skin. And I admit, I'm privileged enough that I don't have to think about the color of my skin. That's not a luxury that lots of people of color get. But you know what? That's not really my problem. It must suck, seriously. My sympathy is with anyone who has to deal with that shit. It must be terrible, and certainly wouldn't help your self-esteem... constantly being told you're less than  because you're not white, in so many words. Yeah, that's shitty.

But shell b, just relax there hun. I'm from the hood. I grew up blocks away from East Cleveland. The nickname for that neighborhood was Baghdad. I know black people far more than you ever have or will. And don't get me wrong, the ghetto doesn't encapsulate what being black is, but I very much grew up around and surrounded by African-American culture. So your little self-righteous crusade for the black folks comes off as a little cringey.

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be black in America, and I never will. But I do get black culture in that I grew up in it. And I'd sort of happy for that because growing up in a neighborhood like that allowed me to meet people from all different races and walks of life at a very young age. I tried lots of different types of foods growing up, heard different languages being spoken around me. Very interesting stuff. My childhood was actually pretty eventful in a lot of ways.

So yeah, the suburban white girl trying to tell me about "imagine what it's like to be black" is a little funny, to say the least.


But that's not really the issue at hand here. You can look up Kobe's words for yourself... Here ya' go:

https://www.duckduckGo.com

Search for yourself.

And look, I get it.

"The poor little white man is so blinded by his privilege that he doesn't see the point"

No, I get it. And I'm simply telling you that in this case, that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is a man who had a sexual encounter with a woman who did not consent to sex. Very easy. Very simple. And listen, if it all was a set up, and Kobe truly was just a victim of some scheme by some psycho bitch who wanted a quick dollar and her little fifteen minutes of fame, then that is horrible. That's fucking terrifying. But given Bryant's own words, I simply do not think that's the case here.

My main point however, was that I'm not demonizing Bryant, and I hope you guys get that. Once again, a man is more than just a terrible mistake he made, or a terrible choice he made, once upon a time.

I simply think that the sexual assault thing was a part of his history, and I'm confused by the backlash people are getting for bringing it up.

I mean for christs fucking sake he admitted to having a non-consensual sexual encounter with a woman... holy fuck people come on.

Good lawd, man. Did you really just tell me to calm down, call me "hun" and try to "I know black people better than you." me?

A few things here, bud. My post was perfectly calm. It wasn't directed at you. It was a hypothetical question not remotely directed at you. I'm not your hun. Don't fucking demean me. I'm not that bitch. Also, you don't know a single, solitary thing about me. I was born and spent half my childhood in Brockton, MA. Fucking suburban white girl? Yeah, I am. Now. Quite recently. I'm not going to count black people around me because that's sickening. That you just tried to compare black people exposure with me is gross. You're gross.

Finally, I wasn't asking you to imagine being black. I was posing a hypothetical for people suggesting all white people hate black people or are dangerous to black people to imagine what it's like to be a white person who isn't dangerous to black people or hate black people being painted with that brush. It hurts. It's racial profiling. My post was an attempt to help others see a different point of view, but not you because my post was not about you.

Why do I feel like this isn't the first time you wigged on me about a post that wasn't directed at you and that you misunderstood? I could be imagining it, but the deja vu feels real. Maybe ask me what I mean before you lose your shit. Maybe get to know me before you assume my life is as culturally diverse as Greek yogurt? Maybe, stop thinking everything is about you.

*cue the post where you're still mad even though you had no goddamn reason whatsoever to take my post personally and no one ever asked you or anyone else to imagine being black*

Okay hun. You win. I'm wrong. You're right. Lol. I really just do not have the energy to keep typing the same things over and over to constantly have what I'm saying misrepresented. You got it Shell. Have a good one.

---

Ok, then explain why her own friends believed differently?

---

---

Okay, counselor. It's not really a hill I care to die on. We can agree to disgree.

[Shell B]

I am right. You thought I asked you to imagine being black and lost your shit about it. I never did that, so there was nothing to misinterpret. Just say you misread my post, dude. You know you did.

[Huggy Bear]

Not every bad thing that happens to black people is due to racist white people.  Does that mean that racism NEVER negatively impacts black people?  Nope.  It means that there are occasions when black people are the victims of racism and there are occasions when they aren't.  I don't think Bryant is a victim.

Boru

Ok, then, how about we look at how the media handles sex accusations of black people vs white...

The following articles are all from the same writer.