Why did Jesus suffer for sinners and not victims

[ronedee]

I am sorry for the loss of the pregnancy...obviously a lot of hope and joy were pinned on the promise of a wanted, and probably planned, child.

Most women are not aborting a happy pregnancy.  There's a difference.

How many people on this thread are/were actually capable of becoming pregnant?  Anyone other than me?

Thank you for your sentiments. 

Most of my children are grown, that 5 y/o is now 21. And most of my 9, are girls (one boy). 17-32 y/o
Including a TG child, who is still living at home w/ us.

To say my life has not been touched by abortion would be wrong. My own sister, I advised to have one.
She died in a vehicle accident several months later. In hind sight, I wish, for more than one reason I didn't
advise her to have one. She may be alive today, and not been on the back of a motorcycle, if caring for a child?
And she thanked me for being free of that baby! Something I've carried, sadly for decades.

Fast-forward 40 years.... 2 of my own daughters chose to abort what would've been my grandkids! And one daughter
has been giving "eggs" to infertile couples.

Does any of that sound like a person who hasn't been on both sides of the issue? There is no emotion "left" in
any of this. What has happened has happened. I miss my sister. I still love all of my daughters. I didn't disown
them or lecture them. They are grown, very educated adults making decisions for themselves.

But, I let them know my feelings about abortion, like I'm letting you all know here. Even if one person listens and
changes their minds about an abortion, I'm happy. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I'm here to state my 
concerns and thoughts on what is true. Truth is.... 

....that fetus is a life! And it could, or couldn't be here depending on what our own mothers thought of us in the womb.

[arewethereyet]

I am sorry for the loss of the pregnancy...obviously a lot of hope and joy were pinned on the promise of a wanted, and probably planned, child.

Most women are not aborting a happy pregnancy.  There's a difference.

How many people on this thread are/were actually capable of becoming pregnant?  Anyone other than me?

Thank you for your sentiments. 

Most of my children are grown, that 5 y/o is now 21. And most of my 9, are girls (one boy). 17-32 y/o

To say my life has not been touched by abortion would be wrong. My own sister, I advised to have one.
She died in a vehicle accident several months later. In hind sight, I wish, for more than one reason I didn't
advise her to have one. She may be alive today, and not been on the back of a motorcycle, if caring for a child?
And she thanked me for being free of that baby! Something I've carried, sadly for decades.

Fast-forward 40 years.... 2 of my own daughters chose to abort what would've been my grandkids! And one daughter
has been giving "eggs" to infertile couples.

Does any of that sound like a person who hasn't been on both sides of the issue? There is no emotion "left" in
any of this. What has happened has happened. I miss my sister. I still love all of my daughters. I didn't disown
them or lecture them. They are grown, very educated adults making decisions for themselves.

But, I let them know my feelings about abortion, like I'm letting you all know here. Even if one person listens and
changes their minds about an abortion, I'm happy. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I'm here to state my 
concerns and thoughts on what is true. Truth is.... 

....that fetus is a life! And it could, or couldn't be here depending on what our own mothers thought of us in the womb.

Thank you for that...very personal information to share and I know it's not easy.

My kids are also grown, the youngest recently turned 34.  

When pregnant with my first, my mother tried to force me to have an abortion.  At that time, though young and single, I didn't want one.  She threatened basically to have dad beat the baby out of me...a very real possibility.  But I was 19 and I simply left...with nothing and nowhere to go.  I figured it out though it was one hell of a struggle along the way.  I probably could have given her a better life had I been in a better place and had her father been the least bit interested.  But that's why I can understand the struggle.

Same daughter did have a pregnancy aborted when she was around 20 and over 20 years later says it was the best decision due to where she was in life at the time and what she had been doing when she became pregnant.  It's still a tender spot for her but she doesn't regret the decision.

I have not known anyone who has taken the decision to or not to abort lightly.  If all things were perfect, I would say we don't need it but since some people find themselves in a position of it being the best decision then it should be available as a safe medical procedure.  That's my stance.

[ronedee]

Thank you for that...very personal information to share and I know it's not easy.

My kids are also grown, the youngest recently turned 34.  

When pregnant with my first, my mother tried to force me to have an abortion.  At that time, though young and single, I didn't want one.  She threatened basically to have dad beat the baby out of me...a very real possibility.  But I was 19 and I simply left...with nothing and nowhere to go.  I figured it out though it was one hell of a struggle along the way.  I probably could have given her a better life had I been in a better place and had her father been the least bit interested.  But that's why I can understand the struggle.

Same daughter did have a pregnancy aborted when she was around 20 and over 20 years later says it was the best decision due to where she was in life at the time and what she had been doing when she became pregnant.  It's still a tender spot for her but she doesn't regret the decision.

I have not know anyone who has taken the decision to or not to abort lightly.  If all things were perfect, I would say we don't need it but since some people find themselves in a position of it being the best decision then it should be available as a safe medical procedure.  That's my stance.

Thank you for your reply.

I'm with you on the life trails and decisions. It's tough, emotional strain that leaves scars in many ways.

I respect your stance and opinion. Even if I don't agree 100%. Ron

[Abaddon_ire]

Is slavery moral? The bible says it is.

Agree to disagree.

I don't agree. 

Does it not cause you to feel any shame when you lie about what the bible actually says?

[The Grand Nudger]

I mean, magic book details exactly how to go about getting an abortion, too....and yet we're still here having this convo.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Does it not cause you to feel any shame when you lie about what the bible actually says?

Agree to disagree ≠ Try to convince me

[Abaddon_ire]

Does it not cause you to feel any shame when you lie about what the bible actually says?

Agree to disagree ≠ Try to convince me

I could supply chapter and verse, but I doubt you would read such. After all, it is quite clear you have not read any of it in the first place, or cherry picked chunks of it at best.

[John 6IX Breezy]

I could supply chapter and verse, but I doubt you would read such.

Right; obviously I'm the least literate and studious member on this forum and have never heard an atheist talk about slavery before lol.