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Osama may be dead.
#91
RE: Osama may be dead.
(May 2, 2011 at 11:47 am)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, maybe one of the things he said he was going to do. Troops home by '08, troops home by '09, troops home by 2010, and on and on. It is not surprising. Presidents always contradict themselves.
No. Obama campaigned on getting out of Iraq. He also pledged to increase presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan, specifically to find Bin Laden. He did not change his tune or contradict himself. It's misinformation like this that people often throw around to discredit Obama, when he's doing exactly what he campaigned to do. He's dropped the ball in a lot of areas, but has absolutely delivered here.

(May 2, 2011 at 11:47 am)Shell B Wrote: Listen, I am not bashing Obama here. I am simply making a point that he is not in the dirt. The guys in the dirt are the ones that make stuff happen. The guys who collect intel from the guys in the dirt make things happen. Obama listens to them and agrees with what they suggest or he disagrees. Do you think he organized the attack? Do you think he would have the slightest idea how to arrange an operation by a 20+ man SEAL team?

By that logic Osama Bin Laden isn't responsible for 9/11 either.
- Meatball
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#92
RE: Osama may be dead.
(May 2, 2011 at 8:48 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: You said earlier that the military used them. Now you say only the civilians use them. Make up your mind Tongue

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that military uses that format. I meant to say that they use the day, month, year format. I had to go to the dentist, Logan International and a Little League game today. I was a little distracted. My bad.

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#93
RE: Osama may be dead.
Quote:and a Little League game today


What position do you play?

Big Grin
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#94
RE: Osama may be dead.
(May 2, 2011 at 9:38 pm)Meatball Wrote: No. Obama campaigned on getting out of Iraq. He also pledged to increase presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan, specifically to find Bin Laden. He did not change his tune or contradict himself. It's misinformation like this that people often throw around to discredit Obama, when he's doing exactly what he campaigned to do. He's dropped the ball in a lot of areas, but has absolutely delivered here.

I'm not trying to discredit Obama. Again, I am indifferent. I don't like or dislike him. Yes, he did say he would pull troops out of Iraq and put them where they were needed more. Mind you, we still have tens of thousands of troops in Iraq and there were always vague hints that all of our troops would be coming home. No promises were made, but you cannot say there isn't a whole lot of "We hope to have . . . " and "We expect to have . . ." I don't hold it against the guy. I've always been of the mind that we would do better with more troops rather than less. It is fairly obvious to me that a shit ton of men and women quickly is far preferable to a trickle of men and women over ten fucking years.

(May 2, 2011 at 11:47 am)Shell B Wrote: Listen, I am not bashing Obama here. I am simply making a point that he is not in the dirt. The guys in the dirt are the ones that make stuff happen. The guys who collect intel from the guys in the dirt make things happen. Obama listens to them and agrees with what they suggest or he disagrees. Do you think he organized the attack? Do you think he would have the slightest idea how to arrange an operation by a 20+ man SEAL team?

(May 2, 2011 at 9:38 pm)Meatball Wrote: By that logic Osama Bin Laden isn't responsible for 9/11 either.

I am pretty sure al-Qaeda does not work the same way the United States government works. Then again, it may be close enough for government work.

Anyway, there would be no al-Qaeda without bin Laden. He was one of the founders. Without Obama, there would still be a CIA, SEAL teams and the United States. That shit would have gone down without him. Osama bin Laden organized the men that gave him his intel. He told them to go get it. He chose targets and decided that he would attack "infidels."


(May 2, 2011 at 10:04 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:and a Little League game today


What position do you play?

Big Grin

Child wrangler. Wink I shuttle two boys - my nephew and my stepson - back and forth to Little League. They are on different teams. That makes for four games a week. I freaking live at the ball field.
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#95
RE: Osama may be dead.
Sae Wrote:My gods... that is a sick contortion on the definition of propaganda.

It does not have to be organized (though it cannot escape bias). It is a term for information presented that supports or denies a thing. Said information does not have to be true or to have gone through the rigors of scientific evidence.

Nonsense, propaganda is information skewed to support an ideological agenda. If you simply have information supporting or rejecting a proposition it is not propaganda, it is simply confirmatory or contrary information - Fossils are not propaganda for evolution, but if I showed videos of creationists acting like 'apes' and then concluded "See, Evolution is true" THAT would be propaganda.

Quote:My mother feeds me propaganda that vegetables are good for me and that's why I have to eat them. Propaganda doesn't need any sort of evidence backing, can be true or untrue, and can be presented by either individuals or groups.

No, it would be propaganda if your mother showed you pictures of people with Gangrene and then said "If you don't want that you have to eat your vegetables". If she is simply giving you information that genuinely supports a position then there is no propaganda.

Quote:Propaganda is *information*. Don't cloud it up as some sort of necessarily evil being designed solely to mislead for sake of some political or social ideal.

Propaganda is a form of information, but they are NOT synonyms. Propaganda is a subset of information designed explicitly to bypass a fair consideration of the facts to promote an ideological position.

I DID NOT say it was necessarily evil, you could make an ad campaign saying that people who don't donate to charity will get aids, it might help gather donations... It's not evil but it's not ethical either. Any time you are playing to someone's emotions to get them to come to a conclusion that you simply could not persuade them of with an unbiased account of the facts you are using propaganda.

For instance, you could not convince someone with an unbiased account of the facts that vaccines cause autism, so in order to promote that particular ideological agenda people resort to biased and emotionally targeted campaigns and slogans, videos of mothers crying over their autistic children, associating everyone who disagrees as being a 'stooge for big pharma' etc in order to propagate (that is the key word) an agenda.
.
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#96
RE: Osama may be dead.
Quote:I freaking live at the ball field.


I did 14 years volunteering in Little League.... plus 3 in hockey.

I know what you mean.
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#97
RE: Osama may be dead.
(May 2, 2011 at 10:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I freaking live at the ball field.


I did 14 years volunteering in Little League.... plus 3 in hockey.

I know what you mean.

Good for you. I have to admit that it is fun to see the kids learn and grow. Poor kid got hit in the face with a pitch today, though. That sucked. He had to go to the hospital, but nothing was broken. He was just bleeding, bruised and freaked out.
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#98
RE: Osama may be dead.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art...cbee4b3.21

FFS is the for real? Fuckin assholes.
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#99
RE: Osama may be dead.
Hey, it's only "hundreds" of people....

I'm more concerned with the speed at which he was 'buried', less than 12 hours after he's killed and they've dumped the body? No autopsy? Where are the photos of his corpse? The only person to identify him, according to officials, is one of his wives. And this "Islamic Custom" is bullshit to begin with, his faith's custom was an unmarked burial in soil, specifically because of the Quran claiming man cam from dust and the custom is "to dust ye shalt return"... The ocean seems like nothing more than a convenient way to prevent exhumation of the corpse. And the pentagon claims to have photos of the corpse but won't release them because they're "too graphic"? Did they forget the awesome corpse shots of Sadam's sons they paraded about?
.
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RE: Osama may be dead.
Quote:No autopsy?


Is it really necessary if you've just put a bullet in someone's fucking head? I'd think cause of death is fairly obvious, no?
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