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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:15 pm
(November 8, 2017 at 1:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You guys are the ones that keep telling me god is so and so. It's not my problem if you keep describing a fucking monster, lol.
It's not like -I- believe that god is anything at all. Frankly, I can't help but think that if there were a god, it would be just a -skosh- better than the object of your fixations.
Calling him a monster is like shooting punches at the skies. He's a fact of this world; the eternal refugee, God of the worlds. You can't be angry at facts ! that makes you quite..unstable.
Imagine a guy fist fighting gravitational pole
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:15 pm
(November 8, 2017 at 12:47 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (November 8, 2017 at 10:13 am)Aroura Wrote: Still waiting.....
Aroura, do you remember my greater design perspective response to evil while a Deist. I made a thread particularly to address the issue of children dying and suffering.
If you are interested, I can open a thread regarding that.
(November 8, 2017 at 12:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes. And since we cannot see into a person's soul, see their motives, their intentions, their thoughts, culpability, etc, we cannot say "Bob went to Hell because he is atheist/Muslim/Jew/whatever else."
This a rational stance but there are exceptions, some people like Hitler we should say is definitely going to hell.
Anyways, I know you meant it in a general sense, just wanted to point this out.
He most likely is there, it's probably a safe guess. But even with him, the Church still can't say he's there... same for Stalin, Zedong, Mussolini, etc.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:16 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 1:17 pm by Mystic.)
(November 8, 2017 at 1:14 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: MK, the sooner you realize most people here are atheists simply because of lack of evidence, rather than, 1. We aren't reading the book right, 2. We're angry at god, 3. We don't want to, or 4. All of the above, the better off you will be. Try actually listening to the reasons people give you for their positions. That's like...step one in any debate/discussion about anything.
I don't think there is lack of evidence for God, but I do think we Theists are not presenting the evidence well. We are distancing people from God by how we are presenting things, especially me.
So I will try to better my skills and present things better.
(November 8, 2017 at 1:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 8, 2017 at 12:47 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Aroura, do you remember my greater design perspective response to evil while a Deist. I made a thread particularly to address the issue of children dying and suffering.
If you are interested, I can open a thread regarding that.
This a rational stance but there are exceptions, some people like Hitler we should say is definitely going to hell.
Anyways, I know you meant it in a general sense, just wanted to point this out.
He most likely is there, it's probably a safe guess. But even with him, the Church still can't say he's there... same for Stalin, Zedong, Mussolini, etc.
I am certain he will in hell and is being punished right now.
I don't doubt it at all.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:18 pm
(November 8, 2017 at 1:11 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(November 8, 2017 at 1:09 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Why the wall of texts and the theories, when the Quran sums the base directly in these two verses?
What is the other parts of Quran for, but explaining the verses you just quoted?
And?
War is peace?
Peace is war?
Left is right?
What I quoted proves your comment?
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:20 pm
(November 8, 2017 at 1:18 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: What I quoted proves your comment?
The context, other verses about the same subject (what the religion is and what the path is), and the emphasis of Quran, as well as reasoning, all prove my comment.
We don't get to choose what verses are important and what is not, we have to believe in the whole book.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:23 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 1:24 pm by WinterHold.)
(November 8, 2017 at 1:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (November 8, 2017 at 1:18 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: What I quoted proves your comment?
The context, other verses about the same subject (what the religion is and what the path is), and the emphasis of Quran, as well as reasoning, all prove my comment.
We don't get to choose what verses are important and what is not, we have to believe in the whole book.
That's a master dodge that I feel so disgusted to see
Please answer this, which I asked you before a month ago, then we talk:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1653072
Quote: Wrote: Wrote:Answer any of these.
And no gymnastics or textual walls ! no implicit answers!
Just give me one verse, across the 600 pages of the Quran that mentions any of the 5 questions' answers.
https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1638653
Quote: Wrote: Wrote: Wrote: Wrote:Quote: Wrote: Wrote: Wrote: Wrote:AtlasS33 said:
I'll give you many options; all prove your religion if you answer them:
1- A verse mentioning "Ali" by the name.
2-A verse mentioning "Hasaen" by the name.
3-A verse mentioning "Hussain" by the name.
4-A verse mentioning the 12 divine imams that we must follow
5-A verse mentioning the last imam that you and your cult believe will rule the universe or whatever -Imam Mahdy-
You're belly dancing around this for a month now. Gymnastics to die from !
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:26 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 1:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 8, 2017 at 1:15 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: (November 8, 2017 at 1:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You guys are the ones that keep telling me god is so and so. It's not my problem if you keep describing a fucking monster, lol.
It's not like -I- believe that god is anything at all. Frankly, I can't help but think that if there were a god, it would be just a -skosh- better than the object of your fixations.
Calling him a monster is like shooting punches at the skies. He's a fact of this world; the eternal refugee, God of the worlds. You can't be angry at facts ! that makes you quite..unstable.
Imagine a guy fist fighting gravitational pole
Sure, I've commented on that many times before, in this thread and in others. If god gets his jollies by tossing people in the pit...well, he;s a god, there's nothing we can do about it...plenty of people will end up in the pit.
That, however, doesn't make him good, nor does it solve the problem of evil. It explicitly affirms it.
If I was living under an earthly despot I probably couldn't do much about that either. Strange how often this notion of "god" is so similar to the worst representatives of the human species, don't you think? Was god the model that tyrants aspire to, or was he modeled after an aspiring tyrant?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:26 pm
I can answer from different angles, but the problem is you are cherry picking from Quran, rather than taking it as a whole. The wage of the message is vital to interpret the whole Quran as well. And has been repeated.
So it is not my fault you ignore proofs presented. Ali name is in Quran but through allusions in such a way that is undeniable to anyone who deeply reflects about it yet not there to those who go to the Quran with his hatred.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 1:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sounds to me like you're saying that your prince's name is in there in such a way as to not be in there. Jesus christ you guys, get back to us when you work out the message between yourselves. You can imagine how exhausting it is to provide audience to a never ending mass of loons who can;t agree on the most basic of shit, right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 8, 2017 at 1:31 pm
(November 8, 2017 at 1:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sounds to me like you're saying that your prince's name is in there in such a way as to not be in there. Jesus christ you guys, get back to us when you work out the message between yourselves. You can imagine how exhausting it is to provide audience to a never ending mass of loons who can;t agree on the most basic of shit, right?
It is, which is why I don't consider non-Muslims as disbelievers.
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