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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 6:59 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
CL doesn't know what she's saying, she doesn't know what the catholic church says, she doesn't know why raping a child is immoral.......and she doesn't even know what she believes from post to post.
This is how religion poisons everything.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 7:09 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2017 at 7:10 pm by Amarok.)
And Hilters was religious
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/11792
[url= https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives...ives/10978[/url]
Then of course there is the Carriers book
Hitler Homer Bible Christ were carrier makes a solid case for Hitlers Christianity and how he justified it using theology .
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 9:21 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 10:04 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Cyberman Wrote:Why, do you see a punchline? I'm asking a serious question. Why would Hitler be in hell?
If nothing else, in Catholicism suicide is a mortal sin.
What about attempting suicide? Because I've already done that.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 9:53 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 4:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 4:06 pm)Mr.Obvious Wrote: You may not be a literal bible believer, I don't know. When I was raised Catholic in school, not by my parents because they didn't believe, some believers tried to teach me the bible was alegory and poetic guidelines, others told me it was literall truth and yet others said it was a combination. But in either case, the underlying idea remains, doesn't it?
God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to him.
And he was going to do it. He was ready for that. In any other case we might call that psychopathic, evil and monstrous.
Bottom line is Abraham had "a heart dark enough to kill innocent people and children"; his innocent son. He didn't do it, but only because God stopped him the last second after seeing in Abraham's heart that he would have.
Catholics are free to believe in either an allegorical or literal interpretation of the Old Testament. In my Catholic school, we were taught as though it were all allegory, and that's the stance I continue to take.
Let's suppose for arguments sake that God's voice sounded from the skies and told Abraham to kill his son, and then told him not to.
I'd say Abraham's culpability is mitigated due to the fact that he was obeying God Himself. He certainly didn't *want* to do it, but felt backed into a wall when, heck, God Himself is telling him to do it. His thinking was "well God gave me this child when i asked Him for one, now He is asking for the child back." While I completely disagree and wouldn't do the same thing in a million years, I wouldn't guess that Abraham has an evil heart for it, either.
Anyone who can pick up a sacrificial knife against their own child either has a heart black as a mine shaft or is straight up fucking crazy. Of course, the latter would explain the voice from the heavens.
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 10:19 pm
That may as well say "Evil exists, yes, but who cares? It's worth it."
That doesn't throw the problem of evil out the window. Suffering may be "worth it" to you, but that doesn't mean it's better to have it than to not have it.
The problem of evil is that evil exists and had to have come from somewhere. Supposedly, God created everything, but God is all good. So why does evil exist? That is "The Problem of Evil".
It's solved to me because God doesn't exist. Therefore evil can exist, there is no "all good" being who claimed to have created everything(which would include evil).
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 10:30 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 6:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 6:43 pm)bennyboy Wrote: What about insane people? What about people who were sexually or physically abused, or who have brain damage? What if THOSE people, who did not have control over how they arrived at that state, do those things?
Shouldn't God have healed them so they'd have true free will, rather than having their entire life's experience filtered through a distorted lens?
Insane people can. I said that.
Okay, given that one cannot control the influences, from DNA, to development in the womb, to social circumstances, would you separate really crazy people from bad people who are deliberately doing wrong?
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 9, 2017 at 11:04 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 10:30 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 6:54 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Insane people can. I said that.
Okay, given that one cannot control the influences, from DNA, to development in the womb, to social circumstances, would you separate really crazy people from bad people who are deliberately doing wrong?
Yes. I thought I was clear in that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 10, 2017 at 10:35 am
(This post was last modified: November 10, 2017 at 10:36 am by bennyboy.)
(November 9, 2017 at 11:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 10:30 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Okay, given that one cannot control the influences, from DNA, to development in the womb, to social circumstances, would you separate really crazy people from bad people who are deliberately doing wrong?
Yes. I thought I was clear in that.
How would you differentiate between a crazy person and a person who chooses to be really bad? Isn't wanting to be bad crazy in and of itself?
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 10, 2017 at 3:08 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 2:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 2:14 pm)Cyberman Wrote: I just want to be clear on what we're saying here.
The Holocaust, the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, was more Himmler's baby than Hitler's, while actualised by Heydrich. Hitler originally wanted the Jews forcibly removed from German controlled areas. As executive authority in that regime, was it more or less 'evil' to command such atrocities, or to allow them in the knowledge that he had the power to prevent them?
I don't know that it's "less" evil. Maybe equal.
I'm so glad you agree.
FTR, I don't think that anyone is in hell (or heaven), since I am of the opinion that such things are not possible in a Universe like ours. OTOH, were such post-mortem justice possible, Hitler and his upper echelon would certainly be deserving of it; alongside Ken Ham and similar mind-rapists, Anjezë Bojaxhiu, Helen Ukpabio, and of course Yahweh itself.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 10, 2017 at 3:13 pm
(November 9, 2017 at 9:21 pm)Hammy Wrote: (November 9, 2017 at 10:04 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: If nothing else, in Catholicism suicide is a mortal sin.
What about attempting suicide? Because I've already done that.
Same. Three times, I think.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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