The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

I'll enjoy making mince-meat of you either way,

With what? You have only got hypothesis, nothing more. DNA tells us a different story:

DNA is coded with a tremendous amount of information and it is not random information either. It is not there by happenstance nor could it be assumed that nature could put it there. Is nature an intelligent life form? If so perhaps it could code DNA but it isn't so. So if nature did not add the code to the DNA, who did?

Quote:Thank you for your honest reply. 

So there's no evidence anywhere in the world where things create and work themselves into existence, except in nature, and you want me to believe that the things which are highly complex, far beyond human intelligence to make or think of, are exactly the opposite of all other facts - that they miraculously put millions of years into designing themselves?

I never said what your imposing on me in fact the total opposite . But nice try imposing opinions on me that i have not stated . I guess that's the only way you can win . By lying .

The "information" in DNA is a post hoc anthropomorphism of mindless chemical compounds, viewed from our current position in the tree of life. We didn't get this way due to any sentient design -- we got this way because all of our ancestors, human and pre-human, had traits that allowed them to survive to breed.

We are fortunate enough to still be here, while 99.9% of species are now extinct. There is sufficient junk in our DNA to indicate trial-and-error over myriad generations, and sufficient flaws in the structure of the human body to indicate that the alleged "design" isn't particularly intelligent.

Quote:With what? You have only got hypothesis, nothing more. DNA tells us a different story:

Nope we have the facts and DNA does not support you in the least .

Quote:DNA is coded with a tremendous amount of information and it is not random information either. It is not there by happenstance nor could it be assumed that nature could put it there. Is nature an intelligent life form? If so perhaps it could code DNA but it isn't so. So if nature did not add the code to the DNA, who did?

And now we move on to the tired conard of DNA information . The same trick over and over .

(March 17, 2018 at 10:28 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 17, 2018 at 4:56 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

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Yes, Ive studied probability. I don't think you have, though. The larger the number sets get, the more likely that the improbable becomes, probable, likely, even just shy of certain.

The odds of rolling all sixes with 5 six-sided dice are on in 7,776. What if we roll those same dice, twice? Three times? 100 times? 1,000,000 times? This is why lotteries are routinely won several times each year despite the odds of an individual winner being exceedingly low.

Now, let's look at it from the point of the cosmos. Hundreds of billions of galaxies hosting hundreds of billions of stars over trillions of years. Your odds against were just made more than likely, more than probable. Considering we're here, I'd say it's certain.

You're claim that it can't happen is based on a single roll where you don't get a Yahtzee. Reality is based on billions of billions of rolls. Probability says it's just shy of certain, in fact that it's almost impossibly improbable to not get that result somewhere, somehow. Who are you to argue against probability after claiming I haven't studied it?

Care to prove probability wrong? Please, go roll those Yahtzee dice forty or fifty thousand times and count the number times you get all sixes.

Your arguments from incredulity mean nothing here, troll. Substantiate your claims in some meaningful way or go fuck yourself.

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We are certainly here, but it is not due to abiogenesis.

(sigh) abiogenesis again.  Yeah.  Amazing, how the theists swarm over here and crow that scientists have not proven abiogenesis, there are problems with the concept, therefore, GOD!!!

Well, first, research on abiogenesis has shown that the chemical stew on the young earth held all of the elements required for life to develop.  http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/r...-conundrum
And new developments on what was missing from earlier studies are being discovered on a regular basis.  https://www.sciencealert.com/compound-ex...igins-life     
But of course, this ignorant troll isn't here to learn anything, is he? 

But even then, the assertion IS that abiogenesis could not have happened, so therefore, GOD!!!  God provided the <what-the-hell-ever-it-is> spark of life. So??
God supposedly stitched together basic life, which slowly developed into sea life and plants and then dinosaurs.  Dinosaurs ruled the earth from approximately 252 to 66 million years ago.  They were long gone before any early proto-human ape tried to stand up to search over the savannah grass for predators.  So??

What was the purpose of dinosaurs?  Rough drafts?  186 million years just playing? No sign of sentience in the big lizards, so send in a comet, start over?  Actually, there have been 5 mass extinctions, just not the one.  And only 1.5 - give or take a few - million years ago a bunch of apes turned into homo erectus and caught this deity's attention?  Then hey!!!  That little itty bitty tribe there, on the edge of the Mediterranean sea - it would decide that they were SPECIAL and it would be their god.  Not god for the Egyptians or the Chinese or the Hittites or the Aztecs . . . just these little Hebaru creatures.  It chose to be a garden-variety war god, bloodthirsty and tribal, but never mind about that part.  

Maybe there WAS some super-intelligent something that smacked a bunch of amino acids into DNA and started life.  So??  It didn't leave any evidence of its existence.  There is absolutely no reason to believe it exists.  Why should we pay it any attention until it shows up and says "hi"???  

Abiogenesis. I'm pretty sure that it will either be proven as true, or a better answer will be found.  That's the great thing about science - when something is shown to be wrong, it's a wonderful thing.  This means that we are closer to finding the real answers.

(March 18, 2018 at 12:20 am)Astreja Wrote: The "information" in DNA is a post hoc anthropomorphism of mindless chemical compounds, viewed from our current position in the tree of life.  We didn't get this way due to any sentient design -- we got this way because all of our ancestors, human and pre-human, had traits that allowed them to survive to breed.

We are fortunate enough to still be here, while 99.9% of species are now extinct.  There is sufficient junk in our DNA to indicate trial-and-error over myriad generations, and sufficient flaws in the structure of the human body to indicate that the alleged "design" isn't particularly intelligent.

Here here . He just repeating tired long refuted canards . The ID bag of tricks is a small one .

(March 18, 2018 at 12:24 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Abiogenesis. I'm pretty sure that it will either be proven as true, or a better answer will be found.  That's the great thing about science - when something is shown to be wrong, it's a wonderful thing.  This means that we are closer to finding the real answers.

When something is shown to be wrong in science, it's because a better answer has been found.  (In the meantime, though, inaccurate or incomplete theories are usually functional enough to be quite useful despite their flaws.)

In religion when something is shown to be wrong, it becomes unreasonable apologetic time.

(March 17, 2018 at 11:49 pm)Banned Wrote:

(March 17, 2018 at 11:20 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Nope man made objects don't . Things in nature do as all the evidence abundantly shows . And there is of course no reason to think a god is involved in nature in any form .

Thank you for your honest reply.
So there's no evidence anywhere in the world where things create and work themselves into existence, except in nature, and you want me to believe that the things which are highly complex, far beyond human intelligence to make or think of, are exactly the opposite of all other facts - that they miraculously put millions of years into designing themselves?

*My bold*

Would seeing be believing or does that require prayer?

(March 18, 2018 at 12:45 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(March 17, 2018 at 11:49 pm)Banned Wrote: Thank you for your honest reply.
So there's no evidence anywhere in the world where things create and work themselves into existence, except in nature, and you want me to believe that the things which are highly complex, far beyond human intelligence to make or think of, are exactly the opposite of all other facts - that they miraculously put millions of years into designing themselves?

*My bold*

Would seeing be believing or does that require prayer?

oh no that's just his magic sky friends gearbox . You see even if there is no actual reason to believe god is behind it . That becomes proof that god is behind it . Because man made objects have someone behind it . There naturally occurring things must because reasons . Yup that's his twisted logic .