Yay  

Quote:Ministers draw up secret plans to stockpile processed food in case of a ‘no deal’ Brexit

If Germany starts building U-boats be worried.  Your navy is not what it once was.

What with Maybot's recent nonsense trying to pull out from the backstop and blaming the EU for her not having tge intelligence to put a deal together nor the balls to push it through, I believe it's now time for the EU just to walk away, even though a no deal brexit will hurt Ireland most.

How Brexit threatens Britain’s food security

Quote:Food stocks are low in a just-in-time economy, an estimated three to five days’ worth. The UK doesn’t feed itself. It has dropped to 61% self-sufficiency, Defra reported last month. The UK has quietly become a “neo-imperialist” food economy, using other people’s land and low wage labour to feed people while consumers subsidise rich landowners and keep their land values high. The UK gets 30% of UK food from the EU. That rises to 40% for horticultural produce, of which consumers eat too little for health.

Unfortunately all the spare land is being built on, especially in the south east of England. So many fields that used to be farmed have been turned into housing estates. So not only will Brexit mean food shortages, but also a rise in house prices if we stop building.

Quote:In the short term, a weaker pound means imports cost more. And the UK’s food system is already pretty vulnerable to shock. Chief scientists have been warning as much for years.

Quote:Millions of food contracts depend on cross continental supply chains. It’s why roads are clogged with food wagons. The food system is heavily tied into Europe. To sever this web will be a task awesome and unprecedented in complexity.

Quote: There are already major challenges to the food system as the UK seeks to decarbonise it and shift diets away from overconsumption of ultra-processed foods – the major cause of non-communicable disease.

Looks like a perfect storm brewing. Revolution only happens when people get hungry.

All the people who voted to leave (without doing any research into what that actually meant) are going to be moaning about all the negative consequences this will have. My wife mentioned that if we can't get a proper deal with the EU (a "pretend this never happened" deal of sorts) then we'll have to go through the World Trade Organisation which will incur mighty costs.

I wonder if people who voted to leave think we can just operate without cooperation with Europe now without coming unstuck. I really don't know how anyone could think that. Emma also pointed out that with Islamic terrorism being a real threat, it's the worst time to be giving the finger to allies. Also France will stop guarding the channel tunnel their end, meaning we'll end up with more illegal immigrants than ever before.

I can predict with high confidence that the defense that leavers will use will be, "Sure things are bad in the short term, but eventually it will be worth it". The classic reality-ignoring, baseless and unfalsifiable claim.

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PS: surely Europe wants us to stay, and anyone in England with a brain now realizes we should stay. Can't we just stop wasting all this time and money and forget this happened? Everyone is just completely making this up as they go along anyway, drawing up legislation on "how this is handled" as they go. Must we stubbornly double down on stupidity at all costs? All the Tories really care about is being re-elected, rather than the future of the country.

(July 25, 2018 at 6:43 am)robvalue Wrote: All the people who voted to leave (without doing any research into what that actually meant) are going to be moaning about all the negative consequences this will have. My wife mentioned that if we can't get a proper deal with the EU (a "pretend this never happened" deal of sorts) then we'll have to go through the World Trade Organisation which will incur mighty costs.

My mum was talking to her sister recently and apparently my aunt's reason for voting for Brexit was because of all the perfect vegetables in the supermarket. My mum ended up wanting to bang her own head against a wall. Because it's not the EU but the supermarkets putting pressure on the farmers to chuck away the misshapen vegetables.

Personally the only thing I look at is the sell by date to get the freshest produce possible because I prepare my dinners a week

(July 25, 2018 at 6:43 am)robvalue Wrote: I can predict with high confidence that the defense that leavers will use will be, "Sure things are bad in the short term, but eventually it will be worth it". The classic reality-ignoring, baseless and unfalsifiable claim.

Yep. We'll be hearing that for quite a while even when there are mobs with pitchforks and burning torches marching in Westminster.

(July 25, 2018 at 6:43 am)robvalue Wrote: PS: surely Europe wants us to stay, and anyone in England with a brain now realizes we should stay. Can't we just stop wasting all this time and money and forget this happened? Everyone is just completely making this up as they go along anyway, drawing up legislation on "how this is handled" as they go. Must we stubbornly double down on stupidity at all costs? All the Tories really care about is being re-elected, rather than the future of the country.

They seem to be forcing this thing through even though most people probably don't want it any more. One explanation I have heard is that it is because the high level Tories have connections to corporations who will make a lot of money buying up Britain's assets on the cheap. But then there is a reason the assets will be worth less. On the other hand, the Tories have a long history of selling off the family silver. It's how they operate.

Sounds about right.

The end result of Brexit is that we have the Tories in charge of things, without the same level of backup from Europe keeping them honest. Why anyone would want that, I don't know. I just pray to Satan that one of the other parties gets their shit together enough to win the next election. I heard Nobcry* did quite well last time, and I like the labour position on a lot of things, so I'll probably vote for them.

*Corbyn

I'm not familiar with the debate about Brexit, living in America where, the news only brings us news about America. But I can imagine those in favor of Brexit had their reasons. Here on the forum, I seem to only hear the anti-Brexit side, which might explain where overall I'm against Brexit. But I might view the situation differently if I were familiar with the arguments that were made by those in favor of Brexit.

(July 25, 2018 at 11:16 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I'm not familiar with the debate about Brexit, living in America where, the news only brings us news about America.  But I can imagine those in favor of Brexit had their reasons.  Here on the forum, I seem to only hear the anti-Brexit side, which might explain where overall I'm against Brexit.  But I might view the situation differently if I were familiar with the arguments that were made by those in favor of Brexit.

Well there was a good argument in that people feared a loss of self-determination and that the EU was expanding at an ever faster rate. Unfortunately the majority of Brexiters voted for reasons that were not the fault of the EU. Like trying to stop immigration even though the immigrants they wanted rid of weren't European.  Or because they were disenfranchised because of the Tories whereas the EU were the ones keeping Tory excess in check. Many people voted as a protest not expecting there to be a a Brexit. Or that there is too much red tape and bureaucracy from the EU even though no one can ever name a single regulation that has not made our lives better or helped protect the environment.

Talking of which, there were massive vested corporate interests to take us out of the EU to stop things like the Working Time Directive which protects people from being exploited and having to work too many hours per week if they don't want to. But this was sold as EU interference. Many regulations brought in by the EU to protect people at work are now at risk from Brexit.

Add to that false promises which were broken literally the morning after the referendum (i.e. an extra 350 million pounds a week to spend on the national health service).

It's why Scotland voted to remain yet is now faced with having to leave against its will. We were lied to during our independence referendum. Rules were broken. No one was held to account and promises were broken literally the next day.

What's the point of a referendum if the people are going to be lied to, spending rules are broken and no one is held to account? Basically to give those in power an excuse to do what they want.

It is not democracy. People did not know what they were voting for. This was deliberate.

I mean, where do you draw the line? If breaking all the rules to win is okay and the result stands, why have a vote at all? Just rig the result and then later say "whoops we miscounted but it's too late now". It was a pinpoint operation to capitalize on the public's naïveté and paranoia. This was not a decision for them to make in the first place.

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This guy sums it all up well.