(April 22, 2021 at 2:33 pm)Reforged Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:30 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Well, if you're going to disallow creepy transgender people the right to use the women's room, ought you not also deny creepy biological females the right to use it? But then... where will they go to the bathroom?

Ooooh thats not what I was saying and you know it.
I'm talking the predatory types who don't so much embrace a lifestyle as they do use it for camouflage.
You know, like a catholic priest. Alot of priests believe the stick but for some its just a means to an end.

No. I don't know it. I am NOT trying to misrepresent what you are saying. That's the last thing I want to do.

Sexual predators exist. We agree on that much. I actually don't have a problem with priests who AREN'T sexual predators. I disagree with them about God's existence, but, otherwise, I like them okay.

You can't discriminate against ALL transgender people just because SOME of them MIGHT be creeps. Period. If that's not what you're saying then please clarify what you're saying.

(April 22, 2021 at 2:36 pm)Reforged Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What's the correct protocol for keeping rapists out of bathrooms -now-?  

Pro-tip, there isn't one, we aren't posting guards.  Some bigots think we should, and not because there are suddenly rapists, but because they're bigots.  It really is that simple.  It's not your job, or bar staffs job, to keep rapists out of bathrooms, and keeping trans people out of bathrooms won't do that if it were your job, anyway.

No no, there aren't *suddenly* rapists. There are rapists, predators, opportunists who (and get this) *lie*. Some of them might decide to... god forbid... *lie* about their lifestyle for easy access to victims.

Are there?  IDK, seems like boys might be getting touched by boys in the boys room more than girls are getting touched by boys in the girls room.  Ease of access, as you say.  Similar concerns with girls in the girls room.

Just imagine if some poor mom followed her son into a bathroom and a rando behind the bar followed her in there with suspicions - or is it just the bearded ladies we worry about here?

Quote:Thanks for admitting theres no contingency for that eventuality and that you're fully willing to sacrifice peoples safety so people can arbitrarily adjust their pissing habits. Real big of you. 
Some people might be embarrassed by pandering that much but ooooooh, you're a special sausage.

There's nothing stopping rapists from getting into bathrooms now, and there won't be anything stopping rapists from getting into bathrooms if we ban trans people from them, either. I'm not in charge of bathrooms, so it's not any source of embarrassment for me.

(April 22, 2021 at 2:40 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:33 pm)Reforged Wrote: Ooooh thats not what I was saying and you know it.
I'm talking the predatory types who don't so much embrace a lifestyle as they do use it for camouflage.
You know, like a catholic priest. Alot of priests believe the stick but for some its just a means to an end.

No. I don't know it. I am NOT trying to misrepresent what you are saying. That's the last thing I want to do.

Sexual predators exist. We agree on that much. I actually don't have a problem with priests who AREN'T sexual predators. I disagree with them about God's existence, but, otherwise, I like them okay.

You can't discriminate against ALL transgender people just because SOME of them MIGHT be creeps. Period. If that's not what you're saying then please clarify what you're saying.

Right but where did I say we should? Can you point it out to me?
I didn't. I don't blame you for thinking it though, a certain someone has very much been looking to misrepresent me and would seem to have succeeded to some extent.

I asked, very politely at first, what the contingency against such ripe opportunity for predatory behavior is. I'm implying there isn't one but there should be one. Rather important to work that out, rather important to have a conversation about it.

What ripe opportunity? The ripe opportunity to use a bathroom, or are we still pretending that this is about rapists?

(April 22, 2021 at 2:42 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:36 pm)Reforged Wrote: No no, there aren't *suddenly* rapists. There are rapists, predators, opportunists who (and get this) *lie*. Some of them might decide to... god forbid... *lie* about their lifestyle for easy access to victims.

Are there?  IDK, seems like boys might be getting touched by boys in the boys room more than girls are getting touched by boys in the girls room.  Ease of access, as you say.  Similar concerns with girls in the girls room.

Just imagine if some poor mom followed her son into a bathroom and a rando behind the bar followed her in there with suspicions - or is it just the bearded ladies we worry about here?

Quote:Thanks for admitting theres no contingency for that eventuality and that you're fully willing to sacrifice peoples safety so people can arbitrarily adjust their pissing habits. Real big of you. 
Some people might be embarrassed by pandering that much but ooooooh, you're a special sausage.

There's nothing stopping rapists from getting into bathrooms now, and there won't be anything stopping rapists from getting into bathrooms if we ban trans people from them, either.  I'm not in charge of bathrooms, so it's not any source of embarrassment for me.

Well lets imagine something more unplesent. Lets imagine the same predator that does that awful stuff you described in the mens room decided to take his business to the ladies room at 1am. 
Should we have a conversation about how we give transgender people the freedom to go to that bathroom but also prevent that poor woman from being raped or would you rather just demonize peop- oh what am I saying? You would rather demonize people.

Well actually there is. As I said, right now if a bouncer or bar staff sees a dude go in the ladies that raises a couple of eyebrows. 
You know this. You're pretending not to know this but you do infact know this. Which makes you look incredibly dishonest.

I would hope that the bouncer decides to stay his heroic hand when he realizes that it's a trans person, and not a bearded lady rapist. Gotta be honest with you, no one ever grabs my dick before I'm allowed entry to the shitter...never gonna be on board with that. It;s not a thing...but if you insist, by all means, come up with some way to solve it now, since we don;t have one...and..preferably, at least from a humanist pov, handle it some way that doesn't abuse the humanity of trans people.

That, ofc, brings us back to my suggestion earlier, the thing you either cant see or don't grant. The trouble with dawkins comments, too, in a nutshell.

(April 22, 2021 at 2:44 pm)Reforged Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:40 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: No. I don't know it. I am NOT trying to misrepresent what you are saying. That's the last thing I want to do.

Sexual predators exist. We agree on that much. I actually don't have a problem with priests who AREN'T sexual predators. I disagree with them about God's existence, but, otherwise, I like them okay.

You can't discriminate against ALL transgender people just because SOME of them MIGHT be creeps. Period. If that's not what you're saying then please clarify what you're saying.

Right but where did I say we should? Can you point it out to me?
I didn't. I don't blame you for thinking it though, a certain someone has very much been looking to misrepresent me and would seem to have succeeded to some extent.

I asked, very politely at first, what the contingency against such ripe opportunity for predatory behavior is. I'm implying there isn't one but there should be one. Rather important to work that out, rather important to have a conversation about it.

"Right but where did I say we should? Can you point it out to me?"

You said:
"Well if I'm bar staff or a passerby and I noticed Mr Beardy Creepy Anarachy guy pop into the womens bathroom I might be inclined to go "Hm. Thats... huh. I should tell someone about that." If on the other hand hes wearing a cheerleader outfit and he pops in to the womens bathroom or bathroom number 3... now what?"


That's where I got it. Not from "certain someone"... I got it from you. Or (if you prefer 90s drug add references, "I learned it from you, Dad. I learned it from you!"

Word of advice: try debating ME about MY points, and my responses to YOUR points. It seems unfair for you to hold what "certain someone" said against me. I have my own views, and I'm offering them straight up.

Why are you even bringing up this "bathroom predator" shit? It's so dumb. I think you're better than this. Explain yourself.

Besides, aren't you some kind of apolitical nihilist who is watching nature unfold? Then why do you even care?

(April 22, 2021 at 2:53 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I would hope that the bouncer decides to stay his heroic hand when he realizes that it's a trans person, and not a bearded lady rapist.  Gotta be honest with you, no one ever grabs my dick before I'm allowed entry to the shitter...never gonna be on board with that.  It;s not a thing...but if you insist, by all means, come up with some way to solve it now, since we don;t have one...and..preferably, at least from a humanist pov, handle it some way that doesn't abuse the humanity of trans people.

That, ofc, brings us back to my suggestion earlier, the thing you either cant see or don't grant.  The trouble with dawkins comments, too, in a nutshell.

How do you know? How do you know its a trans person? Do you honestly think there are people out there who wouldn't take advantage of this? That not one person in your country will use that opportunity?
Perhaps you think I'm suggesting the bouncer should charge in? I'm not. I'm asking you, point blank and without any presumption on what the contingency should be; what should the contingency be? Because I don't know. And I don't think you do either.

Oh I don't know about Dawkins problem but I can see yours. You make all the right noises about giving transgender people their bathrooms but you're too much of an intellectual coward to ask the questions needed to make it happen.
People like you are the reason it will never happen.

You're awfully worried about how you would know it was a trans person, but you're pretty quick to assume rapist. This is tedious.

(April 22, 2021 at 2:47 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What ripe opportunity?  The ripe opportunity to use a bathroom, or are we still pretending that this is about rapists?

We are done here. You have had ample opportunity to approach the subject and you have wasted enough time.

---

(April 22, 2021 at 2:58 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 22, 2021 at 2:44 pm)Reforged Wrote: Right but where did I say we should? Can you point it out to me?
I didn't. I don't blame you for thinking it though, a certain someone has very much been looking to misrepresent me and would seem to have succeeded to some extent.

I asked, very politely at first, what the contingency against such ripe opportunity for predatory behavior is. I'm implying there isn't one but there should be one. Rather important to work that out, rather important to have a conversation about it.

"Right but where did I say we should? Can you point it out to me?"

You said:
"Well if I'm bar staff or a passerby and I noticed Mr Beardy Creepy Anarachy guy pop into the womens bathroom I might be inclined to go "Hm. Thats... huh. I should tell someone about that." If on the other hand hes wearing a cheerleader outfit and he pops in to the womens bathroom or bathroom number 3... now what?"


That's where I got it. Not from "certain someone"... I got it from you. Or (if you prefer 90s drug add references, "I learned it from you, Dad. I learned it from you!"

Word of advice: try debating ME about MY points, and my responses to YOUR points. It seems unfair for you to hold what "certain someone" said against me. I have my own views, and I'm offering them straight up.

Why are you even bringing up this "bathroom predator" shit? It's so dumb. I think you're better than this. Explain yourself.

Besides, aren't you some kind of apolitical nihilist who is watching nature unfold? Then why do you even care?

Thats one quote out of context from a whole conversation which you formed a judgement on me from.

Its the concern that prevents the transgender bathroom from happening. Until it is addressed it will not happen.
People act like its some great mystery as to why it hasn't happened yet and to be honest its pathetic. You all know why.
If theres even the slightest increase in a probability of sexual assault people will not vote for it.
Until a contingency is thought of its pissing in the wind. But more than anything; its boring. Solve it already.