(December 10, 2022 at 7:43 pm)Lek Wrote:

(December 10, 2022 at 5:11 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: You really, really want stereotypes that you are familiar with, don't you?

I'm trying to point out that if both genders are the same there are no genders.

Clearly, genders exist, a continuum from feminine to masculine. I am a biological male, and am also a transgender female. How to "prove" that? I suppose that I could be evaluated by a clinical psychologist, who could classify me as such, but, you may not accept that evaluation anyways, and, I do not feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else.

(December 10, 2022 at 9:22 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(December 10, 2022 at 7:43 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm trying to point out that if both genders are the same there are no genders.

Clearly, genders exist, a continuum from feminine to masculine.  I am a biological male, and am also a transgender female.  How to "prove" that?  I suppose that I could be evaluated by a clinical psychologist, who could classify me as such, but, you may not accept that evaluation anyways, and, I do not feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else.

It's funny something recognized by both sociologists, anthropologists, and psychologists and even biologists somehow doesn't exist...

(December 10, 2022 at 9:22 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(December 10, 2022 at 7:43 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm trying to point out that if both genders are the same there are no genders.

Clearly, genders exist, a continuum from feminine to masculine.  I am a biological male, and am also a transgender female.  How to "prove" that?  I suppose that I could be evaluated by a clinical psychologist, who could classify me as such, but, you may not accept that evaluation anyways, and, I do not feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else.

It's the same with his denial that there hasn't been laws that specifically have attempted to undermine trans rights

(December 10, 2022 at 9:51 pm)Helios Wrote:

(December 10, 2022 at 9:22 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Clearly, genders exist, a continuum from feminine to masculine.  I am a biological male, and am also a transgender female.  How to "prove" that?  I suppose that I could be evaluated by a clinical psychologist, who could classify me as such, but, you may not accept that evaluation anyways, and, I do not feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else.

It's funny something recognized by both sociologists, anthropologists, and psychologists and even biologists somehow doesn't exist...

Historians, also (similar but not identical to the anthropologists):

Wikipedia. -- Two-spirit

Since I'm banned from the trans thread I'll just answer this here

Quote:Your definition of gender comes down to the indirvidual's choice.

Individual mental states and choices on the part of the Transperson themselves. 

Quote:I now consider myself to be of the masculine gender. 

You are ...

Quote:I exhibit what are traditionally considered masculine traits.

Yup as defined by you to you.

Quote:Tomorrow I can keep those exact same traits and have a revelation that I'm really a woman. 

Yes because those traits can overlap with a women

Quote:Do you agree that I am then a woman?

Yup if you identify as such.

Quote: If so, are there any distinguishing traits that separate the genders? 

Depends on the individual person and the characteristics they assign their own gender as I have repeated a million times now.

Quote:If not, then how can gender even exist?

They do exist as the characteristics people assign to themselves even if all those characteristics overlap between genders.


Seriously this isn't complicated...

But really it's just the cherry on the sundae along with the wanton denial the GOP is working to strip transpeople of all rights in prep for the final solution.

Then you agree that I would be a woman in the example given. I'll go with that.

Quote:Then you agree that I would be a woman in the example given. I'll go with that.

Yup and ?

Once again banned from the Trans Thread so I'll answer this here.

Quote:I think I've achieved what I wanted to.

You have achieved nothing except reminding us why we don't take you seriously. 

Quote:You have all shown that your meaning for gender is totally objective and unscientific. 

Nope we have shown that individualism and nothing about it is in contradiction with science and is supported by multiple fields of the social sciences.

Quote:To support your agenda, you are trying to push a made-up definition for gender. Either that or God has enlightened you.

Nope, no agenda simply respecting people's ability to be themselves nor is the definition made up at least no more so than any other definition. Nope, no gods were involved because there is no evidence those exist. Unlike transgender identities which do... 

Rye posted this in the trans thread 

Quote:And here's a source for the "trans brains being closer to their identified gender than their biological sex" thing. And here's another. And Yet Another.

And for the record, Lek, you consider the social constructivist idea of gender totally unscientific. The thing is, even if you're equating gender with sex (which is fallacious), even that's not quite as clear as you'd like to think. According to Rebecca Jordan-Young, a biologist who recently wrote a book about testosterone, "There are at least six different biological markers of “sex” in the body: genitals, chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive structures, hormone ratios and secondary sex characteristics. None of the six is strictly dichotomous, and the different markers don’t always align." And, believe it or not, this view is more common than you'd think among biologists.

 While this does produce correlation we must be careful not to let brain gendering be the determiner of gender as well into the trap of biological essentialism in gender. Even if someone didn't have a gendered brain it wouldn't make them any less trans. And yes the general sex traits don't always line up and while Trnsphobes will insist this is irrelevant due to rarity or dismissal due to being an "abnormality" these objections are actually what's irrelevant.