(July 11, 2012 at 9:15 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote:

(July 11, 2012 at 6:38 am)Skepsis Wrote: Believing that there is no God and lacking belief are very, very different.
How can you not understand when he explained it in the very post you quote in your reply?
This is a false dichotomy.

I understand, trust me. It is pretty clear that some people just cannot admit that they are wrong. I asked a yes or no question, a question that is either true or false but cannot be neither. One who refuses to answer is simply evading… whether they are aware of it or not.

Is it true that you still beat your significant other?

Wikipedia Wrote:A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).

Aside from being a logical fallacy, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda

(July 11, 2012 at 5:28 pm)Skepsis Wrote:

(July 11, 2012 at 9:15 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I understand, trust me. It is pretty clear that some people just cannot admit that they are wrong. I asked a yes or no question, a question that is either true or false but cannot be neither. One who refuses to answer is simply evading… whether they are aware of it or not.

Is it true that you still beat your significant other?

Wikipedia Wrote:A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).

Aside from being a logical fallacy, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda

Or: "Have you stopped beating your significant other?"

It's not a loaded question however.

Do you believe there is no God?

A weak Atheist would say no, and a strong Atheist would say yes. A strong Atheist can say I don't know for sure and be agnostic, but still believes there is no God.

I don't know why people evaded the answer.

I would say however neither the strong atheist or theist needs to prove his claim.

Most of the things we hold faith on are stored in our subconscious. If you begin to try to rationalize why you believe your Mom loves you, you will not reach the real reasons you believe that in your subconscious. At most, you would be stating some possible factors.

If you want to rationalize why you believe the wall of China exists even though you never seen it, you will not reach the real reasons your subconscious believes that and is rationally justified to do so.

Therefore if a strong atheist looking at life, thinks, really there is no God, how can there be? he doesn't have to rationally justify it with arguments.

A believing Theist, even if it's not on the basis of properly basic knowledge, doesn't have to justify it, because his subconscious could be aware of all sorts of reasons to believe in God, that he is not aware of.

Even if things can be rationally proved, it doesn't mean we are wrong to trust our subconscious. A child can believe his mothers loves him, without making a rigorous argument to prove that.

Bullshit Mystic.

Do you believe there are no unicorns, leprechauns, Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

So, you are evading the question when you say yes.

Funny that you think you can speak for atheists. Grow a damn brain.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's not a loaded question however.

Do you believe there is no God?

A weak Atheist would say no, and a strong Atheist would say yes. A strong Atheist can say I don't know for sure and be agnostic, but still believes there is no God.

And a weak debater would assume belief is a prerequisite to not accepting the concept of God.
Did it ever cross your mind this may be a result of a lack of evidence rather than any kind of hunch which is basically what belief amounts to?
Of course it did, you just chose to phrase the question that particular way because answering it would mean falsely acknowledging Atheism is a belief system as opposed to plain lack of belief.
That *is* a loaded question and you know it.

I am rather disappointed you resorted to this kind of ploy, it is something many of our more radical theists would resort to. I will not mention names but I believe we both know who I'm referring to and it is definitely not something you want to aspire to.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:19 pm)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: Bullshit Mystic.

Do you believe there are no unicorns, leprechauns, Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

unicorns no..I believe they might exist on other planets.

Lebperchauns yes I believe they don't exist.

flying sphaghetti monsters yes I believe they don't exist.

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(July 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(July 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's not a loaded question however.

Do you believe there is no God?

A weak Atheist would say no, and a strong Atheist would say yes. A strong Atheist can say I don't know for sure and be agnostic, but still believes there is no God.

And a weak debater would assume belief is a prerequisite to not accepting the concept of God.
Did it ever cross your mind this may be a result of a lack of evidence rather than any kind of hunch which is basically what belief amounts to?
Of course it did, you just chose to phrase the question that particular way because answering it would mean falsely acknowledging Atheism is a belief system as opposed to plain lack of belief.
That *is* a loaded question and you know it.

I am rather disappointed you resorted to this kind of ploy, it is something many of our more radical theists would resort to. I will not mention names but I believe we both know who I'm referring to and it is definitely not something you want to aspire to.

No, there is weak Atheism, which would say "no".

Strong Atheism is not merely a lack of belief, but belief God(s) does/do not exist. And would say yes.

It's not a loaded question as far I can tell.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's not a loaded question as far I can tell.

The question was, "is it true that you believe there is no God?"

Answer: Yes: You are acknowledging that you affirm the nonexistence of God(s).
Answer: No: Will be taken to mean that you aren't an atheist, as a categorical error on the part of the questioner.

You're right, it isn't truly a loaded question, but the understanding of the questioner in the field that he is asking about is so limited that it might as well be a true loaded question. Just because you can answer "no" truthfully doesn't make it any more appealing, because if I were to answer "no" I would have to go on a long-winded diatribe about how belief that there is no God =/= lack of belief in God.

He has been making this mistake for as long as he has been on the forums, so I don't expect any sudden enlightenment during this line of questioning.

Weak Atheism commonly is referred to as "agnosticism". Agnosticism also seems to have it's own different definition which is lack of proclaiming to know. So from that perspective you can be Agnostic Theist, Agnostic Weak Atheist, Agnostic Strong Atheist. You can be all three.

But the common usage of the term, is that Atheists believe God doesn't exist, while agnostics don't believe either way.

There is a battle going on about the words. Unfortunately, they don't have a universal meaning.

A lot of weak atheists would rather be called agnostics, and a lot of weak atheists rather be called atheists.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:39 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Weak Atheism commonly is referred to as "agnosticism". Agnosticism also seems to have it's own different definition which is lack of proclaiming to know. So from that perspective you can be Agnostic Theist, Agnostic Weak Atheist, Agnostic Strong Atheist. You can be all three.

But the common usage of the term, is that Atheists believe God doesn't exist, while agnostics don't believe either way.

There is a battle going on about the words. Unfortunately, they don't have a universal meaning.

A lot of weak atheists would rather be called agnostics, and a lot of weak atheists rather be called atheists.

You're mostly correct.
Sociatal stigma can and does change the meaning of words, but in the case of atheism we can simply go back to its roots and see that it simply means "without God".
That is its universal meaning.

(July 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 11, 2012 at 6:19 pm)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote: Bullshit Mystic.

Do you believe there are no unicorns, leprechauns, Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

unicorns no..I believe they might exist on other planets.

Lebperchauns yes I believe they don't exist.

Then fucking prove it. If not you are evading as you are accusing us of doing.

Quote:flying sphaghetti monsters yes I believe they don't exist.

Then fucking prove it. If not you are evading as you are accusing us of doing.

Quote:

(July 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: And a weak debater would assume belief is a prerequisite to not accepting the concept of God.
Did it ever cross your mind this may be a result of a lack of evidence rather than any kind of hunch which is basically what belief amounts to?
Of course it did, you just chose to phrase the question that particular way because answering it would mean falsely acknowledging Atheism is a belief system as opposed to plain lack of belief.
That *is* a loaded question and you know it.

I am rather disappointed you resorted to this kind of ploy, it is something many of our more radical theists would resort to. I will not mention names but I believe we both know who I'm referring to and it is definitely not something you want to aspire to.

No, there is weak Atheism, which would say "no".

Strong Atheism is not merely a lack of belief, but belief God(s) does/do not exist. And would say yes.

It's not a loaded question as far I can tell.

All of those classifications are arbitrary, Mystic. Dawkins isn't the be-all-end-all authority on what is atheism. You trying to hold us to this classification as if it were the only way to look at atheism is a fallacious appeal to misleading authority.